Hate To Say It, But We Missed Marty B

[jjktkk]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

the New Refrigerator.

Well we could get someone like that cheap. But still wonder at all the effort that would be better spent on the O line itself

Or better yet, a blocking TE, and fix the OLine.

[Picksix]

Originally Posted by xwalker

I have spent a ton of time analyzing the Cowboys 2012 OLine and running game using both the Tivo'd broadcasts and the All-22 from NFL.com.

There were definitely a significant number of failed plays that can be attributed directly to a TE (mostly Phillips) not getting the proper block.

Saw the same thing, and I agree that the player also needs to be able to give something in the passing game. And he has to accept that that's his role. The take on Kowalski is interesting. Can he catch?

[Picksix]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

if you are talking blocking even a lousy Tackle should be better then a TE.

Frankly that is all BS. When you are using two TEs and a stacked backfield if you do pass it will be a surprise and there will be people open. meanwhile that tackle can help pass block

No, it's really not. But your objection is noted.

Originally Posted by newlander

garbage thread. NOTHING says a guy doesn't want to be somewhere more than just being out of SHAPE like he was. He was a soft tub of goo for us and he goes to NY and doesn't even look like the same guy anymore. Yeah, we miss him: like a HEMORRHOID

The title was bad. Should have gone with something more generic, and made it more clear that I was glad to see Marty go. The truth is, in our system, we need a TE that can block. Yeah, Witten is a good blocker, but we need another one.

[ShiningStar]

Originally Posted by Picksix

Not from a pass-catching standpoint by any means. What we missed was his blocking. For the three years previous to his leaving, he was ranked by PFF as one of the best - if not the best - blocking TE. That's why we went after Kellen Davis and John Carlson like we did. Garrett knew we needed better than what remained. Phillips is a better pass-catcher, but not nearly the blocker Marty was. Getting Vickers was supposed to help, but he was a disappointment.

We talk about making improvements at OL, DL, S, etc, and rightfully so. But don't be surprised if the first guy we sign in FA is a TE.

scew that, if anything i dont think we used Hanna a lot, i like what he brings to the team.

[Omegasupreme]

Originally Posted by ShiningStar

scew that, if anything i dont think we used Hanna a lot, i like what he brings to the team.

I think this has to be the year that more of the plays reflect the strengths of the players. With the short pass or quick high percentage plays to the YAC players, Dez (1/3 of his 1300 yards were after the catch), Miles (1/3 of his 900 yards were after the catch), Felix (86% of his 262 receiving yard were after the catch), and Murray (94% of 251 receiving yard were after the catch) - Dallas could make practical yard gains, clock control, and play variation with the natural RAC abilities of these "natural" resources already on the team.

Hanna plays into this as well, as his vertical speed and mismatches with LBs and DBs give him and advantage or at least a decoy.

But here's the thing: John Phillips, for all his blocking imperfections, should have been used for his short area quickness (in the first Giant game, Romo used him with the short pass). At the Combine, his 20 yard shuttle was the third quickest behind Sperry and Gronkowski.
http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-perfo...LE&position=TE

But since mere workout numbers and NFL game observations might not be enough, the college stats of Phillips kind of tell the best story where in his senior year, he was used in short area passes of routes that were 5-7 yards and he caught 48 passes.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/.../john-phillips

Sure he needs to work on his blocking but he will beat a LB or DE for a short gains to keep the chains moving. If the running game is still a chimera or an effort of negligence, then throw the ball for 5 yards per play instead.

[ShiningStar]

Originally Posted by Omegasupreme

I think this has to be the year that more of the plays reflect the strengths of the players. With the short pass or quick high percentage plays to the YAC players, Dez (1/3 of his 1300 yards were after the catch), Miles (1/3 of his 900 yards were after the catch), Felix (86% of his 262 receiving yard were after the catch), and Murray (94% of 251 receiving yard were after the catch) - Dallas could make practical yard gains, clock control, and play variation with the natural RAC abilities of these "natural" resources already on the team.

Hanna plays into this as well, as his vertical speed and mismatches with LBs and DBs give him and advantage or at least a decoy.

But here's the thing: John Phillips, for all his blocking imperfections, should have been used for his short area quickness (in the first Giant game, Romo used him with the short pass). At the Combine, his 20 yard shuttle was the third quickest behind Sperry and Gronkowski.
[View Full Quote]http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-perfo...LE&position=TE

But since mere workout numbers and NFL game observations might not be enough, the college stats of Phillips kind of tell the best story where in his senior year, he was used in short area passes of routes that were 5-7 yards and he caught 48 passes.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/.../john-phillips

Sure he needs to work on his blocking but he will beat a LB or DE for a short gains to keep the chains moving. If the running game is still a chimera or an effort of negligence, then throw the ball for 5 yards per play instead.

wow wonderful post.

[Picksix]

Originally Posted by Omegasupreme

I think this has to be the year that more of the plays reflect the strengths of the players. With the short pass or quick high percentage plays to the YAC players, Dez (1/3 of his 1300 yards were after the catch), Miles (1/3 of his 900 yards were after the catch), Felix (86% of his 262 receiving yard were after the catch), and Murray (94% of 251 receiving yard were after the catch) - Dallas could make practical yard gains, clock control, and play variation with the natural RAC abilities of these "natural" resources already on the team.

Hanna plays into this as well, as his vertical speed and mismatches with LBs and DBs give him and advantage or at least a decoy.

But here's the thing: John Phillips, for all his blocking imperfections, should have been used for his short area quickness (in the first Giant game, Romo used him with the short pass). At the Combine, his 20 yard shuttle was the third quickest behind Sperry and Gronkowski.
[View Full Quote]http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-perfo...LE&position=TE

But since mere workout numbers and NFL game observations might not be enough, the college stats of Phillips kind of tell the best story where in his senior year, he was used in short area passes of routes that were 5-7 yards and he caught 48 passes.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/.../john-phillips

Sure he needs to work on his blocking but he will beat a LB or DE for a short gains to keep the chains moving. If the running game is still a chimera or an effort of negligence, then throw the ball for 5 yards per play instead.

Seemed like that's how we were using him before his knee injury. Not sure if that caused the change or not, but he doesn't seem to be used like that much anymore. I think last year, the plan was to pick up a blocking TE like Davis from Chicago, which would have allowed them to keep Phillips in his role. But they couldn't, drafted Hanna who was much more a receiver than a blocker, Nd kept Phillips in the blocking role. At some point we'll get another blocking TE, perhaps keep Phillips and let go Vickers. Hanna is more a hybrid between TE and receiver, so we could possibly have 3 TEs, 5 WRs, and 1 hybrid.

[5StarComboBreaker]

Originally Posted by dexternjack

I miss nothing about the "unicorn". So, he went off and caught some passes, big whoop. Hanna could have done the same for the Giants, as well as Phillips because they are used more and in different ways.

Yes, he was a good blocker but I saw no difference in our offense with or without him this past season.

I don't see the point of going after another TE in FA, we already have three unless Phillips is on his way out. We need lineman who can block, first and foremost.

This. I think people freaked out because he had a couple good fantasy stats. I really don't think he is/was the answer for a 2nd TE

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by Picksix

Not from a pass-catching standpoint by any means. What we missed was his blocking. For the three years previous to his leaving, he was ranked by PFF as one of the best - if not the best - blocking TE. That's why we went after Kellen Davis and John Carlson like we did. Garrett knew we needed better than what remained. Phillips is a better pass-catcher, but not nearly the blocker Marty was. Getting Vickers was supposed to help, but he was a disappointment.

We talk about making improvements at OL, DL, S, etc, and rightfully so. But don't be surprised if the first guy we sign in FA is a TE.

I agree. Reception wise he was minimal but his blocking was very good for us and the lack of blocking hurt the Cowboys this past season.

As for what the Cowboys do this coming season should there be a change in the offense I don't know that the Cowboys will look to a blocking TE, much of that will be determined based on any changes that may take place.

Should as some speculate Callahan will take over the offense and this offense becomes more of a WCO style then I highly doubt getting a blocking TE will be a major issue.

If Cowboys continue using a lot of 2 TE formations then getting a blocking TE would be a bit more important.

Clearly this past season with this offense not having Bennett in terms of his blocking skills was a negative for the offense

[bbailey423]

Originally Posted by Picksix

Not from a pass-catching standpoint by any means. What we missed was his blocking. For the three years previous to his leaving, he was ranked by PFF as one of the best - if not the best - blocking TE. That's why we went after Kellen Davis and John Carlson like we did. Garrett knew we needed better than what remained. Phillips is a better pass-catcher, but not nearly the blocker Marty was. Getting Vickers was supposed to help, but he was a disappointment.

We talk about making improvements at OL, DL, S, etc, and rightfully so. But don't be surprised if the first guy we sign in FA is a TE.

Phillips is a better pass catcher? The MartyB hate around here knows no bounds! Phillips is a 3rd TE. On a good team he does not even make the roster! Why do you think Phillips is a good TE? Because the Garrett family said he was? Because he was with Garretts brother at UVA? So did Ogletree! And we know how that has turned out!

[rickjameschinaclub]

Why do we always try and and minimize Garrett being a horrible coach? We stunk in red-zone scoring with Bennett, as well as Robinson. Tony Romo buying time with his feet is what often caused the latter, but that still didn't mask our weaknesses with Garrett's play-calling.

[Idgit]

Originally Posted by rickjameschinaclub

Why do we always try and and minimize Garrett being a horrible coach?...

Because he's not, and we're not blind.

[Picksix]

Originally Posted by rickjameschinaclub

Why do we always try and and minimize Garrett being a horrible coach? We stunk in red-zone scoring with Bennett, as well as Robinson. Tony Romo buying time with his feet is what often caused the latter, but that still didn't mask our weaknesses with Garrett's play-calling.

We don't. You are consistently bagging on him as being a horrible coach. Besides, that's not what the post was about, but I'm not surprised you went there.

[Chocolate Lab]

Crayton had some things to say about John Garrett's coaching of Marty the other day. He said that calm robotic preaching you saw on Hard Knocks of "Come on, Martellus, find your helmet, get ready for the next play, ball acrosst your chest" was pretty much the coaching he got aside from constantly telling him to copy #82. Crayton even said a couple of players tried to tell him that he needed to try to connect with MB on a more personal level and tell him more than "Do what Witten does" but he never did.

I know some will discount everything Crayton says because they don't like him, but I thought it was sort of interesting. At least he was there and saw things first hand.

[SkinsandTerps]

What's that saying about 'hindsight' ?

How do you replace him is the bigger question.