Mike & Mike: Clayton suggests Larry Allen could miss the HOF this year w/Audio #125

[mldardy]

Originally Posted by perrykemp

Can't you conceivable be 1st Team All-Pro with 1 vote? Ie, 49 Votes go the #1 guy and the other 1st Team All Pro at your position (if you play a position where they select two) got 1 vote?

NO.

[perrykemp]

Originally Posted by mldardy

He didn't mention Matthews I did.

Good catch.

Goes to show how hard it is to make judgements about "greatest player of all time".... there are so many factors involved. How the heck would you even begin to compare the career performances of John Hannah, Bruce Matthews, and Larry Allen. It's pretty much impossible other than to say they were all 1st ballot HOFers (hopefully with Larry Allen).

[perrykemp]

Originally Posted by mldardy

NO.

Ok explain. I don't understand it.

It looks to me that each year they pick Two 1st Team All-Pro Guards. Let's assume the the 1st guy is a near unanimous choice with 49/50 votes. If the next guy got 1 vote he wouldn't make it?

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by mldardy

Well you need to MAKE that point about the Pro Bowl and conferences in your post. Which you didn't. That would help. As far as mean distinguishing All Pro and Pro Bowl I very clearly did. I clearly stated All Pro. You are making some really lame excuses as to why a player makes a Pro Bowl or All Pro team or whatever. Conference doesn't have anything to do with it. Is the player good, worthy enough of being awarded that honor. Allen and others who've been honored clearly are. There is no conference talent difference when it comes to making those teams. That doesn't even make sense.

Regardless, you are wrong. You don't have to admit it but you are wrong.

All those players Matthews and Hannah played with were good players but my point is Hannah was so good he would have thrived no matter who he played with and who's to say those players weren't elevated by Matthews/Hannah's play. That's why they lasted as long as they did. Look at those names Matthews played with. They were at all points of his career: beginning, middle, and end. yet Matthews was the constant and still excelled no matter who he played with. That's what makes you great, a HOFer and why none of those others are great and are HOFers (except Munchak).

I never said Matthews or Hannah would not be great. What I said was that they did play with other guys on the OL that were good and that's true. They did. There are a lot of guys I didn't list that were good but did not make Pro Bowls or All Pro teams. They were still good.

The thing you did not address was the competition at each players respective positions. I do think that there was better talent at OT then there was OG, with respects to each player. There are better ways to judge the quality of each player. This thread should tell you that. What are we discussing here? We are discussing a statement, made by a voter, that says Allen may not make the HOF in his 1st year. Now, clearly we all believe that he should because he was that good. However, because it is voted on by people who may not be as knowledgeable or may have an agenda, that may not happen.

How do you make a Pro Bowl or an All Pro Team?

There you go.

[wick]

I thought this was likely when I read the ESPN story about the candidates. In the opening paragraph, it named Sapp, Ogden, Strahan, and Allen and then in the following sentence said that Sapp, Ogden and Strahan won Super Bowls, ignoring Allen's championship in 1995.

[mldardy]

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

Regardless, you are wrong. You don't have to admit it but you are wrong.




I never said Matthews or Hannah would not be great. What I said was that they did play with other guys on the OL that were good and that's true. They did. There are a lot of guys I didn't list that were good but did not make Pro Bowls or All Pro teams. They were still good.

[View Full Quote]The thing you did not address was the competition at each players respective positions. I do think that there was better talent at OT then there was OG, with respects to each player. There are better ways to judge the quality of each player. This thread should tell you that. What are we discussing here? We are discussing a statement, made by a voter, that says Allen may not make the HOF in his 1st year. Now, clearly we all believe that he should because he was that good. However, because it is voted on by people who may not be as knowledgeable or may have an agenda, that may not happen.

How do you make a Pro Bowl or an All Pro Team?

There you go.

How am I wrong? You didn't distinguish between Pro Bowl and All Pro for starters and then telling me I'm wrong and I don't have to admit. Pretty weak. Ok I'm not going to admit because I'm not wrong.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by mldardy

How am I wrong? You didn't distinguish between Pro Bowl and All Pro for starters and then telling me I'm wrong and I don't have to admit. Pretty weak. Ok I'm not going to admit because I'm not wrong.

I explain it to you in the previous post. Go back and read it again if you like. The conference and even the division you play in does make a difference. I explained it to you. Why am I not surprised you are not wrong?

[mldardy]

Originally Posted by wick

I thought this was likely when I read the ESPN story about the candidates. In the opening paragraph, it named Sapp, Ogden, Strahan, and Allen and then in the following sentence said that Sapp, Ogden and Strahan won Super Bowls, ignoring Allen's championship in 1995.

Sapp is not going to make it 1st ballot. If a guy like John Randle who was equal or better didn't get in Sapp won't either. I know Sapp has the being on TV exposure but man it wouldn't seem right for him to get in 1st ballot.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by mldardy

Sapp is not going to make it 1st ballot. If a guy like John Randle who was equal or better didn't get in Sapp won't either. I know Sapp has the being on TV exposure but man it wouldn't seem right for him to get in 1st ballot.

Did you read any of this thread?

Everybody who has posted has said that it would not be right but the fact that it could happen is way wrong. That's pretty unanimous I think.

[mldardy]

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

I explain it to you in the previous post. Go back and read it again if you like. The conference and even the division you play in does make a difference. I explained it to you. Why am I not surprised you are not wrong?

This was your first post I responded of yours:

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

This is not a very good way of comparing these players. For one, they played in different conferences. You have to measure the talent at positions and consider the years played as well. You also have to consider the talent they played around, especially on the OL.

I agree that Allen and Ogden are the two best and I don't believe it's all that close between 2nd and 3rd. I do believe it's very close between 1st and 2nd and I think that if you asked people who played, they would agree with that but this last is just my opinion.

As an example, Ogden played at the same time Walter Jones, Willie Roaf, Tony Boselli, Orlando Pace and Erik Williams did. I think that the quality at OT was better during that period of time then was the quality at Guard. Either way, the difference in the two is not huge IMO. They were both some of the very best at their positions in the History of the League.

There is no mention of Pro Bowl in this post.

[mldardy]

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

Did you read any of this thread?

Everybody who has posted has said that it would not be right but the fact that it could happen is way wrong. That's pretty unanimous I think.

LOL. Yeah I read the thread. Does that mean that I'm not allowed to post my opinion of Sapp because you feel everyone else has?

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by mldardy

This was your first post I responded of yours:



There is no mention of Pro Bowl in this post.

There is also nothing you've posted that would disprove what I originally said.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by mldardy

LOL. Yeah I read the thread. Does that mean that I'm not allowed to post my opinion of Sapp because you feel everyone else has?

No, it apparently means that I am giving you yet another opportunity to use your eyeroll.


You should thank me for that.

[mldardy]

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

There is also nothing you've posted that would disprove what I originally said.

What I disproved is that you said you mentioned Pro Bowl when you clearly didn't.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by mldardy

What I disproved is that you said you mentioned Pro Bowl when you clearly didn't.

Never said this.