Nate Newton Speaks

[jterrell]

Having the right attitude and desire maximizes your talent.

But if you have no talent, it doesn't matter.

Why do players retire? Is it because they lose their attitude and determination or because they lose their athletic gifts?

This team absolutely needs to commit 100% to working hard and go to the wall to win. But doing so will only assist them so far. It is absurd to believe only 1 team per year does this.

If a team underachieves it is fair to question their attitude and desire. This 2012 Cowboys team, upon review of talent and injuries ended up right about where they should be.

Demarcus Ware played SEVERELY injured. That is desire and attitude. Jason Witten played with a life-threatening situation. That is desire and attitude. This team has leaders and it has desire. The 70 year old owner was pushing Ratliff to play hurt. This team was trying to sell out to win. It just couldn't do it.

[jnday]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

Players believe lots of superstitious nonsense. The fact that they vocally voice superstitious nonsense means absolutely nothing. They wear lucky shirts. Many eat the same pre-game meal every week because they believe it brings them luck. Many don't change socks or shave in the middle of a winning streak. Given that their livelihoods are dependent on luck and variance moreso than other people, it's not a surprise they believe in a whole lot of vague voodoo. Besides, it's easier to blame unquantified intangibles for why your "swagger" doesn't mean jack in 1998 compared to 1993 than to admit your just not as good of a football player as you used to be.

I have to agree with Frog. Spend less time on arrogant answers and research the mental and emotional side of football. You must not have played the game on any level. If you had, you would know about winning attitudes and chemistry between teammates. It doesn`t matter how much talent you have on a team if they don`t trust each other and play to win.

[InmanRoshi]

Originally Posted by jterrell

They are also 4 of the most physically gifted men to ever play the game.

Deion and Rod Woodson were considered the fastest DBs in football for a good while.

Sapp the most explosive DT.

Faulk had perhaps the best hands of any RB ever.

Talk to me about the mental game of a guy who was 30 pounds underweight but surviving or a slow CB who found a way to battle it out.

Don't tell me about attitude when you were bigger, faster and stronger than just about everyone you ever matched up with. Because that is total garbage.

It's pretty hilarious to hear Warren Sapp of all people preach about heart and preperation. I acutally put him in the rarefied category of underachieving Hall of Famer, because he ate his way from a natural 280 lbs. to 340. Who could forget when he came into the league and would win those Pro Bowl skills competitions running and round and fielding punts at 285 lbs. more naturally than Pro Bowl NFL Wide Receivers.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

READ MY QUOTES!!!

[View Full Quote]We aren't talking talent. Nate's argument was making plays to be 10-6 vs 8-8. We have talent. The teams like the Skins have talent and were in the same position. Jimmy's take, Nate's take, Irvin's take...beating teams and the difference in games like these is that extra attitude that comes with the hard work, conditioning, discipline (not to make a mental mistake in a big situation) . It's simple. You are fooling yourself if you think every player in the league takes their job just as seriously as the next guy and is just as prepared. Bill Parcells methods didn't work anymore. He admitted that. We had one of our best teams ever under Barry his first year and 3 straight turnovers vs a similar team in the NFC Championship game doomed us. No one is saying that talent isn't a factor or that attitude can make you win 5 straight SBs. The point is that when it comes to the difference in games with equal teams or in situations where a win is big, those extra intangibles are what gets some teams through....extra film, etc. The NFL is loaded with talent. Some guys work harder. Truth.

Health is a copout. We had a similar team and all health the year before and were 8-8. Same position, same failure.

Your point is silly. So please stop screaming about it 1000 times.

We could have been 6-10 as opposed to 8-8. Witten and Ware's toughness helped get us to 8-8.

The argument this team left wins on the table is fair if you want to break down specific games like BMore. But by the same token this team came from behind virtually every game and could have lost 5 more.

This team didn't lack attitude nor did it underachieve. It lacked health and overall talent. We started something like 8 guys who were street or undrafted free agents within the past 24 months.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by jnday

I have to agree with Frog. Spend less time on arrogant answers and research the mental and emotional side of football. You must not have played the game on any level. If you had, you would know about winning attitudes and chemistry between teammates. It doesn`t matter how much talent you have on a team if they don`t trust each other and play to win.

DUDE... holy crap.

This is gotten silly.

Troy Aikman and Deion HATED each other. They certainly didn't share any bonds. The things Haley did to teammates are legendary.

You win with talent.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

It's pretty hilarious to hear Warren Sapp of all people preach about heart and preperation. I acutally put him in the rarefied category of underachieving Hall of Famer, because he ate his way from a natural 280 lbs. to 340. Who could forget when he came into the league and would win those Pro Bowl skills competitions running and round and fielding punts at 285 lbs. more naturally than Pro Bowl NFL Wide Receivers.

BRB, I am going to get my attitude right so I can try out for Cowboys.

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by speedkilz88

Do you want to read mine and point out the guys on defense who don't play with attitude?

I did and I really don't see what the point of that was. You have a list of guys with question marks. Your assumption is that a list of names should/does play with attitude. That doesn't prove anything. We don't know how dedicated all those guys are. We also have heard differently how players on the team do treat it like a country club. So who's to stay any of those guys has a real urgency. I think Lee does. I think Carr does. But despite being a favorite and a great player I don't know if Ware is a leader or if he goes the extra mile. Same with Spencer or Hatcher. So far 8-8 and giving up leads over the years says maybe no. I like to take in what these ex-players say because they have been there and it matches the reality from when I played. To say they are clueless and making up concepts and that these players are doing everything possible when they still commit dumb penalties and blow assignments doesn't jive with me.

[InmanRoshi]

Originally Posted by jnday

You must not have played the game on any level. If you had, you would know about winning attitudes and chemistry between teammates.

It's hilarious to hear this line come up time and time again by people who scored 3 TDs in Junior High, yet ignoring the points brought up brought up by jterrell .. who has more experience playing competitive sports than probably everyone else in this thread combined.

People are naturally superstitious and believe a lot of goofy stuff. A lot of times it just comes down to the power of repitition where if something is repeated enough times it just naturally becomes true and regarded as "conventional wisdom". "Swagger" falls in the category of "clutch" for me. If polled, probably 90% of people believe in these magical qualities called "clutch", but there is no evidence that it exists when given enough sample size. When given enough sample size good players tend to play like good players in the post season, and bad players tend to play like bad players in the post season. Derek Jeter has no magical "clutch" postseason abilities, and given that he has a large sample size of postseason games (roughly a regular season's worth) we know that his career postseason numbers fall right in line with their career regular season numbers (almost exactly to the tee). However, I'm sure without looking at the numbers most sports fans would get all in the huff to dare suggest that Jeter isn't Mr. Clutch and doesn't raise his play in the postseason, because most people are driven by romantic sentimental narratives and feel good stories about meritology about what they "feel" should be true.

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by jterrell

BRB, I am going to get my attitude right so I can try out for Cowboys.

Again, RIF classes.

You have no talent. Thus it wouldn't matter. Similar talents...only been said 50 times. But why try to explain basic concepts to people whose idea of responding is going off on tangents that don't have anything to do with what we are talking about. Being a smart alec doesn't make you look better or smarter. Life clue.

[Gaede]

Have you guys ever played sports or do you just watch it and eat chips? To pretend that intangibles don't count in any sport is just ignorant.

There is a fundamental difference in a player with determination and the right attitude and the player without it. And it's not as simple as superior physical skills or the guy saying all the right things in interviews and doing the right things off the field. Some players have the intangibles to respond at the right moment and take what they want from the opponent when it matters most. And some players, given the same opportunity, will fold. And it's not always who you expect. Frequently, the player with the best physical gifts who performed the best in meaningless games will fail when you need a win, and frequently the player who might not be the most talented will come through because he has that grit in him.

That's what I believe Nate was referring to. Or trying to.

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by jnday

I have to agree with Frog. Spend less time on arrogant answers and research the mental and emotional side of football. You must not have played the game on any level. If you had, you would know about winning attitudes and chemistry between teammates. It doesn`t matter how much talent you have on a team if they don`t trust each other and play to win.

You might as well stop trying. Your going to get a long paragraph about superstitions, etc where he won't even take the time to try and understand sports/football and who thinks ex-great players offer no insight into teams.

EDIT: LMAO..reading his response above,,nailed it.

Originally Posted by Gaede

Have you guys ever played sports or do you just watch it and eat chips? To pretend that intangibles don't count in any sport is just ignorant.

There is a fundamental difference in a player with determination and the right attitude and the player without it. And it's not as simple as superior physical skills or the guy saying all the right things and doing the right things. Some players have the intangibles to respond at the right moment and take what they want from the opponent when it matters most. And some players, given the same opportunity, will fold. And it's not always who you expect. Frequently, the player with the best physical gifts will fail you and frequently the player who might not be the most talented will come through.

That's what I believe Nate was referring to. Or trying to.

You're dead right. My quotes above from Lombardi express this, Jimmy has talked about it. Almost every ex-player and HOF'er has talked about it. Yet people that hang out on CZ know better because its foolish to think that not every guy in the NFL doesn't train just as hard as the next guy.

It's a real simple concept. In the playoffs, winner take all games for a playoff spot, rivalry games...2-3 plays can change the outcome. Most of these teams have similar talents. Getting that extra yard...Ray Rice getting extra 29 in San Diego...make a difference between a 6th seed and a 4th seed. Going up and catching a ball...A. Boldin..extends a drive vs punting back to hot team. It's why Emmitts shoulder game vs Giants is so great.

[WV Cowboy]

Originally Posted by jnday

Spend less time on arrogant answers and research the mental and emotional side of football. You must not have played the game on any level. If you had, you would know about winning attitudes and chemistry between teammates. It doesn`t matter how much talent you have on a team if they don`t trust each other and play to win.

Agree ...

Chemistry, attitude, confidence, leadership, trust, work ethic, or just the stubborn will to win.

None of these can really be measured like height, weight, size, speed, vertical, strength, etc.

But all are more important though to the success of a team.

[InmanRoshi]

Originally Posted by Gaede

Have you guys ever played sports or do you just watch it and eat chips?

Wanna answer that jterrell?

I played high school football. When we had players who were good at playing football, we won. When we had players who bad at playing football, we lost. We worked just as hard both years. Hard work and wanting to win are generally not rare traits, particulary on a competitive professional level. However, my anecdotal experience is largely irrelevant as is everyone elses. I used to believe in a lot of superstitious hogwash like "clutch" ability. I grew up and read stuff and put less weight into sentimentality and romantic narratives and I got over it.

[Gaede]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

Wanna answer that jterrell?

It was a rhetorical question and you know it. I don't need his credentials.

The point is that anybody who has ever played a single sport in their life knows that physical skills don't get you jack if don't know how to win.

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

Wanna answer that jterrell?

I played high school football. When we had players who were good at playing football, we won. When we had players who bad at playing football, we lost. We worked just as hard both years. Hard work and wanting to win are generally not rare traits, particulary on a competitive professional level. However, my anecdotal experience is largely irrelevant as is everyone elses. I used to believe in a lot of superstitious hogwash like "clutch" ability. I grew up and read stuff and put less weight into sentimentality and romantic narratives and I got over it.

And the bolded still has nothing to do with the conversation. Maybe a 5th times a charm. Difference between 8-8 and 10-6 in the NFL vs similar teams and talent comes down to intangibles. But your probably already scouring google for another gif or something to post instead of reading.