Running the Seattle Defense

[InmanRoshi]

There's nothing "PR" about mentioning Seattle. Monte Kiffin was the mentor and biggest influence to both Gus Bradley and Pete Carroll. They also employed a lot of 3-4 elements into their defense at Seattle, which would make sense for the Cowboys to emmulate since they're transitioning from a 3-4 and have been drafting players to fit into a 3-4 for the last 7 years.

Also, if they are looking to emmulate more of what Gus Bradley did in Seattle, I wouldn't get too caught up on projecting who goes where. Seattle used a ton of different looks and a ton of different sub packages, and a lot of role players who played 12-15 snaps per game along the front 7 depending on a specific role in a specific package. Do you want Rob Callaway playing 60 snaps a game for you as an everydown 5 Tech? No. Could he play 12-15 snaps for you in a specific package as a 5-Tech? Probably. I think mainly what you look for in the front 7 are versatile players who can do a lot of different things, which is why guys like Sheldon Richardson and Shariff Floyd make sense in the first round given that they played multiple techs and positions in college.

[Idgit]

Originally Posted by xwalker

Excellent, excellent post.

Yep..

[Wood]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

Looks like Kiffin is going to run more of the Seattle type defense which makes me happy. It matches our players much better. Seattle defense is a lot like a 3-4 but with the DL shifted over and the WOLB plays DE. Hatcher can play the end like red bryant and move inside on the nickel. Ratliff would be perfect to play where Mebane plays, Mebane plays the 1 and 3 tech. Lessimore is all we have to play the one where Branch is lined up now that Brent will most likely not be back. May need to find a player to rotate at this position.

[View Full Quote]Church is very similar to Chancellor and we have two press man corners which seattle uses also. We have two LBs that can tackle, has speed and can cover much like Seattle has and are used in a 3-4. The two other spots we are looking for are a Earl Thomas type safety and a SOLB like KJ Wright. We have the SOLB in Spencer, but can we keep him. Spencer would play the same role as Wright and Irving plays in Seattle and Miller plays in Denver. All comes up to play DE on nickel but can still drop in coverage and very good vs the run.

Kiffin is telling players to watch Seattle tape, which is the reason why I saying we are going to run the same style defense as Seattle. If we were going to run the Tampa 2 base scheme then he would tell players to watch Chicago tape.

We aren't that much off from having the starting players to run this defense. We need that free roaming CD like Thomas, SOLB like Wright(Spencer), big one tech NT like Branch and DO depth.

you pointed out the first problem with it...Hatcher playing Red Bryant spot. They are not even in same stratosphere in terms of production. Earl Thomas is light years ahead of any safety on Dallas. 3/4 of Seattle backfield (CB & S) are over 6'2" and tenacious. So sure..Kiffin can say all he wants about scheme he will play but when you have 1st round draft picks like Clayborne who wanna stay 'clean' during the play - you will be hard pressed to produce similar results as Seattle. They are straight up thug defense.

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by Wood

you pointed out the first problem with it...Hatcher playing Red Bryant spot. They are not even in same stratosphere in terms of production. Earl Thomas is light years ahead of any safety on Dallas. 3/4 of Seattle backfield (CB & S) are over 6'2" and tenacious. So sure..Kiffin can say all he wants about scheme he will play but when you have 1st round draft picks like Clayborne who wanna stay 'clean' during the play - you will be hard pressed to produce similar results as Seattle. They are straight up thug defense.

You must not have read the entire post. Never said Bryant and Hatchet are one in the same or talked about size. I said Hatcher can play the position of SDE.

Also I said we need a Thomas like FS.

also Carr and Claiborne are press corners.

[InmanRoshi]

Originally Posted by Wood

you pointed out the first problem with it...Hatcher playing Red Bryant spot. They are not even in same stratosphere in terms of production.

Agreed.

Jason Hatcher is a much, much better player than Red Bryant.

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by Wood

you pointed out the first problem with it...Hatcher playing Red Bryant spot. They are not even in same stratosphere in terms of production. Earl Thomas is light years ahead of any safety on Dallas. 3/4 of Seattle backfield (CB & S) are over 6'2" and tenacious. So sure..Kiffin can say all he wants about scheme he will play but when you have 1st round draft picks like Clayborne who wanna stay 'clean' during the play - you will be hard pressed to produce similar results as Seattle. They are straight up thug defense.

2012:
Bryant 24 tkls 0 sks
Hatcher 51 tkls 4 sks

More 2012:
Clemons 40 tkls 11.5 sks
Bryant 24 tkls 0 sks
Irvin 16 tkls 8 sks
Scruggs 6 tkls 2 sks

Branch 29 tkls 1 sk (plays 3 tech)
Mebane 56 tkls 3 sks (plays 1 tech)
Jones 10 tkls 3 sks
McDonald 25 tkls 0 sks

Ware 56 tkls 11.5 sks (played hurt)
Spencer 95 tkls 11 sks
Butler 25 tkls 3 sks
Albright 31 tkls 0 sks

Hatcher 51 tkls 4 sks
Lissemore 35 tkls 1 sk
Ratliff 16 tkls 0 sks (6 gms)
Spears 25 tkls 1 sk
Crawford 20 tkls 0 sks
Brent 22 tkls 1.5 sks

2011:
Mebane
2011 56 tkls 0 sks
2010 31 tks 1 sk

Ratliff
2011 38 tkls 2 sks
2010 31 tkls 3.5 sks

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

Agreed.

Jason Hatcher is a much, much better player than Red Bryant.

Correct, so he should be able to play the position and be much better at it.

[lwehlers]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

There's nothing "PR" about mentioning Seattle. Monte Kiffin was the mentor and biggest influence to both Gus Bradley and Pete Carroll. They also employed a lot of 3-4 elements into their defense at Seattle, which would make sense for the Cowboys to emmulate since they're transitioning from a 3-4 and have been drafting players to fit into a 3-4 for the last 7 years.

[View Full Quote]Also, if they are looking to emmulate more of what Gus Bradley did in Seattle, I wouldn't get too caught up on projecting who goes where. Seattle used a ton of different looks and a ton of different sub packages, and a lot of role players who played 12-15 snaps per game along the front 7 depending on a specific role in a specific package. Do you want Rob Callaway playing 60 snaps a game for you as an everydown 5 Tech? No. Could he play 12-15 snaps for you in a specific package as a 5-Tech? Probably. I think mainly what you look for in the front 7 are versatile players who can do a lot of different things, which is why guys like Sheldon Richardson and Shariff Floyd make sense in the first round given that they played multiple techs and positions in college.

great job explaining the defense thanks.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by xwalker

2012:
Bryant 24 tkls 0 sks
Hatcher 51 tkls 4 sks

More 2012:
Clemons 40 tkls 11.5 sks
Bryant 24 tkls 0 sks
Irvin 16 tkls 8 sks
Scruggs 6 tkls 2 sks

Branch 29 tkls 1 sk (plays 3 tech)
Mebane 56 tkls 3 sks (plays 1 tech)
Jones 10 tkls 3 sks
McDonald 25 tkls 0 sks

Ware 56 tkls 11.5 sks (played hurt)
Spencer 95 tkls 11 sks
Butler 25 tkls 3 sks
Albright 31 tkls 0 sks

Hatcher 51 tkls 4 sks
Lissemore 35 tkls 1 sk
Ratliff 16 tkls 0 sks (6 gms)
Spears 25 tkls 1 sk
Crawford 20 tkls 0 sks
Brent 22 tkls 1.5 sks

2011:
Mebane
2011 56 tkls 0 sks
2010 31 tks 1 sk

Ratliff
2011 38 tkls 2 sks
2010 31 tkls 3.5 sks

maybe my point is Dallas isn't physical enough on defense to get same results as Seattle and not having a Earl Thomas is huge.

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by Wood

maybe my point is Dallas isn't physical enough on defense to get same results as Seattle and not having a Earl Thomas is huge.

I think the one almost universal agreement with members of the board and the media/fans is that the Cowboys need an upgrade at Safety.

They need an upgrade regardless of the defensive scheme, IMO.

[Erik_H]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

There's nothing "PR" about mentioning Seattle. Monte Kiffin was the mentor and biggest influence to both Gus Bradley and Pete Carroll. They also employed a lot of 3-4 elements into their defense at Seattle, which would make sense for the Cowboys to emmulate since they're transitioning from a 3-4 and have been drafting players to fit into a 3-4 for the last 7 years.

[View Full Quote]Also, if they are looking to emmulate more of what Gus Bradley did in Seattle, I wouldn't get too caught up on projecting who goes where. Seattle used a ton of different looks and a ton of different sub packages, and a lot of role players who played 12-15 snaps per game along the front 7 depending on a specific role in a specific package. Do you want Rob Callaway playing 60 snaps a game for you as an everydown 5 Tech? No. Could he play 12-15 snaps for you in a specific package as a 5-Tech? Probably. I think mainly what you look for in the front 7 are versatile players who can do a lot of different things, which is why guys like Sheldon Richardson and Shariff Floyd make sense in the first round given that they played multiple techs and positions in college.

Maybe you're just not aware of what PR means.

Public relations (PR) is the practice of managing the flow of information between an individual or an organization and the public.Public relations may include an organization or individual gaining exposure to their audiences using topics of public interest and news items that do not require direct payment. The aim of public relations by a company often is to persuade the public, investors, partners, employees, and other stakeholders to maintain a certain point of view about it, its leadership, products, or of political decisions. Common activities include speaking at conferences, winning industry awards, working with the press, and employee communication.

The fact that Kiffin was mentor to Bradley and Carroll doesn't contradict the idea of giving the fans a current and real world representation of what direction we hope to go. Add to that the extra boost that we want to go in the direction of the team that beat us up the most. The mere fact that it is being mentioned is PR in and of itself. PR does not mean BS as you seem to think based on your post. None of the points you brought up (all very valid and good) is an argument against it being PR though.

If there was no intention to point the fans in a certain direction as to the hopes for our D, Hatcher never would have mentioned Seattle.

[InmanRoshi]

They need to upgrade at safety, but to claim that the only way you can possibly effectively run it is to have Earl Thomas is not true. It's like saying the only way you could possibly effectively run the 3-4 is to have Troy Polamalu

[InmanRoshi]

Originally Posted by Erik_H

Maybe you're just not aware of what PR means.


The fact that Kiffin was mentor to Bradley and Carroll doesn't contradict the idea of giving the fans a current and real world representation of what direction we hope to go. Add to that the extra boost that we want to go in the direction of the team that beat us up the most. The mere fact that it is being mentioned is PR in and of itself. PR does not mean BS as you seem to think based on your post. None of the points you brought up (all very valid and good) is an argument against it being PR though.

If there was no intention to point the fans in a certain direction as to the hopes for our D, Hatcher never would have mentioned Seattle.

If Monte Kiffin were worried about public relations and fan opinion, seems like the best way to do so would be to directly come out and give a direct statement to fans about how we're running Seattle's defense.

Not the round-about way of privately saying that we're running something similar to Seattle's defense to the players, and then hoping that they find a way to squeeze it into a conversation to reporters when pressed about it.

Just using Occam's Razor here, I would suggest the reason he brought up Seattle's defense to the players is because he's going to have them play in something similar to Seattle's defense, and there are no grand Machiavellian intentions at play.

[jterrell]

Carroll's 4-3 under has more in common with Tom Landry than Monte Kiffin. **should add Belichek of course.

He's given many talks on this.

See this article.
http://trojanfootballanalysis.com/?p=308

It isn't a Tampa 2 defense at all.
Plays a ton of cover 1.

Actually makes a lot of sense for Dallas who just spent a fortune to plug in 2 man corners.


Will be interesting to watch.

And of course regardless of scheme we need better safety play than we had in 2012 where it was in the 2 or 3 worst of the entire league.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

If Monte Kiffin were worried about public relations and fan opinion, seems like the best way to do so would be to directly come out and give a direct statement to fans about how we're running Seattle's defense.

Not the round-about way of privately saying that we're running something similar to Seattle's defense to the players, and then hoping that they find a way to squeeze it into a conversation to reporters when pressed about it.

Just using Occam's Razor here, I would suggest the reason he brought up Seattle's defense to the players is because he's going to have them play in something similar to Seattle's defense, and there are no grand Machiavellian intentions at play.

Kiffin is too old to worry about PR. Jerry might spew PR nonsense but Kiffin could clearly care less.

He wasn't going to say go watch my crappy USC defenses. Seattle is VERY likely the model. Stud LBs, relentless pass rush and man coverage. What's not to like.