Future Salary Cap Hell (or not)

[jnday]

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Hence Namdi invalidates this entire notion. Max Unger has also been widely publicized. Acting like all you read is good things about Jerry Jones is laughable.

Unger was a player in the draft. If you use him as an example, you might as well say it was made public that Jerry failed by not getting Luck in the draft. After all, he was the Cowboy's top rated player in the draft and I am sure Jerry wanted him. The draft is just a different situation.


Namdi was only made public because the bidding was being made public. ESPN was giving updates every ten min. In the final hours. Jerry had no control in keeping the bidding private. Namdi's people wanted s public bidding war and that's what it was.

I hope you really don't believe that every coach and player that Jerry has went after, has told him yes. He is just not that damn important.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Originally Posted by jnday

Unger was a player in the draft. If you use him as an example, you might as well say it was made public that Jerry failed by not getting Luck in the draft. After all, he was the Cowboy's top rated player in the draft and I am sure Jerry wanted him. The draft is just a different situation.


Namdi was only made public because the bidding was being made public. ESPN was giving updates every ten min. In the final hours. Jerry had no control in keeping the bidding private. Namdi's people wanted s public bidding war and that's what it was.

I hope you really don't believe that every coach and player that Jerry has went after, has told him yes. He is just not that damn important.

Except the story that has been widely published where the Cowboys were focusing --the term used most often has been coveted-- Unger and Holmgren got the better of him again.

That's right too there have been reported story after story of Holmgren outmaneuvering Jones for very good reason. He did.

Your assertion that most of what is written about Jones shows him getting his man is plain dumb. You only been reading Spagnola articles?

[Blue Eyed Devil]

I'm with you Fuzzy, it was the worst-kept secret that the Cowboys were linked to Unger.

I think that getting burned and not getting Unger is what led the Cowboys to trade up in 2010 for both Dez Bryant and Sean Lee rather than waiting for them to fall to them. The sting of Unger was too fresh and they wanted to make sure they could go get their guys when they got close.

[jnday]

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Except the story that has been widely published where the Cowboys were focusing --the term used most often has been coveted-- Unger and Holmgren got the better of him again.

That's right too there have been reported story after story of Holmgren outmaneuvering Jones for very good reason. He did.

Your assertion that most of what is written about Jones shows him getting his man is plain dumb. You only been reading Spagnola articles?

Once again you have problems with communication. Not moving up in the draft has nothing not do with the point I'm making. I have read countless times on this very board that Jerry always gets his man. I say he doesn't get every free agent or even coach that he goes after and it is not made public.

Jerry was linked to Peterson before the Cards drafted him. He didn't get his man because of the draft position. Same with Unger. The draft has nothing to do with Jerry's reputation. In Unger's case, Jerry didn't make the right move in the draft. It wasn't a situation where Unger turned Jerry down.

If you would read my post, you should be able to understand that I am saying Jerry doesn't always get his man and in some cases it is never made public.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Originally Posted by jnday

Once again you have problems with communication. Not moving up in the draft has nothing not do with the point I'm making. I have read countless times on this very board that Jerry always gets his man. I say he doesn't get every free agent or even coach that he goes after and it is not made public.

Jerry was linked to Peterson before the Cards drafted him. He didn't get his man because of the draft position. Same with Unger. The draft has nothing to do with Jerry's reputation. In Unger's case, Jerry didn't make the right move in the draft. It wasn't a situation where Unger turned Jerry down.

If you would read my post, you should be able to understand that I am saying Jerry doesn't always get his man and in some cases it is never made public.

I read your post and you said

Originally Posted by you

You only read about him getting his man. Failures are not made public.

This is false.

In two years off the top of my head I can think of Asmougha and Kellen Davis.

You can try and recharacterize what you said but this notion that Jerry is portrayed as always getting his man and you are some sort of maverick trailblazer of this new take is garbage.

Your approach is banal if anything.

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by Hoofbite

How is Carr slotted for 3M when he has SBs of 2M attributable for the years of 2014, 2015, 2016?

If cut, the remaining prorated bonus money is spread out over 2 years (June 1st cut).

2M + 2M + 2M = 6M

6M/2 = 2M in 2014, 2M in 2015

[jnday]

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

I read your post and you said



This is false.

In two years off the top of my head I can think of Asmougha and Kellen Davis.

You can try and recharacterize what you said but this notion that Jerry is portrayed as always getting his man and you are some sort of maverick trailblazer of this new take is garbage.

Your approach is banal if anything.

You really have a problem dude. I was simply answering the usual question "when has Jerry not gotten his man?". Pointing out that it is not always made public by Jerry or his staff is simply stating facts. Not an trailblazing statement IMO. You still are missing the point in your attempt to be an smart .

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by xwalker

If cut, the remaining prorated bonus money is spread out over 2 years (June 1st cut).

2M + 2M + 2M = 6M

6M/2 = 2M in 2014, 2M in 2015

which would be fine but is literally impossible because Carr has guaranteed money coming still this year in his 15m base.

that's why he'll have much of that converted and handed to him this off-season.

then it will be a completely different number. calling any number associated with releasing carr 2m is about an agenda not reality.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by jnday

You really have a problem dude. I was simply answering the usual question "when has Jerry not gotten his man?". Pointing out that it is not always made public by Jerry or his staff is simply stating facts. Not an trailblazing statement IMO. You still are missing the point in your attempt to be an smart .

like most threads the points have went too far. we are all guilty of it.

jerry has great success in getting the free agents he truly wants. no one is 100% on any such exercise but he is so often willing to overpay that he does get them more often than not.

we had a number for nnamdi and it went higher than our number. we got lucky that it did. but it was stated day 1 we are insane long shots because we didnt have cap space to go to where his agent was asking. in reality all we did was bid up philadelphia which is win/win for us.

unger was a guy the scouts liked where we were slotted to pick. he wasn't some gleam in jerry's eye.

holmgren liked him around our spot too and went up ahead of us to get him.

it worked because the player was a good one in a weak draft. but it wasnt some hall of fame grab. unger was graded harshly early in his career and has developed nicely of late. he resigned on a kyle kosier deal. a player we could definitely use but not one who lifts this OL much by himself.

pff rated seattle's OL 29th in 2011. they obviously made massive strides in 2012 helped in great part by a fad offense.

phil costa's +4.6 for his limited 2012 was higher than Unger's +3.3 for 2011. --I don't have Unger's 2012 grade but suspect it is much better.

an interesting look at free agent OL:
FA Guards(PFF)
years team rating snaps(2012)
Brandon Moore G 10 NYJ UFA 21.3 1086
Andy Levitre G 4 BUF UFA 17.3 1039
Ryan Lilja G* 9 KC UFA 14.5 1023
Louis Vasquez G 4 SD UFA 12.7 1057
Donald Thomas G 5 NE UFA 11.2 614
Kevin Boothe G 7 NYG UFA 8.2 1027

FA Tackles
Ryan Clady OT 5 DEN UFA +26.9 1141
Andre Smith OT 4 CIN UFA +26.9 1073
Gosder Cherilus OT 5 DET UFA +23.5 1229
Will Beatty OT 4 NYG UFA +22.4 967
Sebastian Vollmer OT 4 NE UFA +21.5 1111
Phil Loadholt OT 4 MIN UFA +15.9 1056
Branden Albert OT 5 KC UFA +13.8 722
Sam Baker OT 5 ATL UFA +11.6 1073
Austin Howard OT 3 NYJ RFA +8.5 1096
King Dunlap OT 5 PHI UFA +7.1 838


FA Centers

Brian De La Puente C 3 NO RFA +23.0 1134
Fernando Velasco C 3 TEN RFA +13.0 1025
Todd McClure C 14 ATL UFA +6.7 1059
Dan Koppen C 10 DEN UFA +5.0 908
Phil Costa C 3 DAL RFA +4.6 126
Evan Dietrich-Smith C 3 GB RFA +3.2 475

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by xwalker

As of this minute, the Salary Cap Hits in 2014 if CUT after 2013 for the top Contracts are:

(some of these will change drastically after restructuring)

$3,000,000.00 Brandon Carr
$2,721,750.00 DeMarcus Ware
$2,567,182.00 Morris Claiborne
$2,500,000.00 Jason Witten
$2,370,000.00 Orlando Scandrick
$2,000,000.00 Jay Ratliff
$1,570,000.00 Miles Austin
$1,162,500.00 Dez Bryant
$1,050,000.00 Nate Livings
$948,509.00 Tyron Smith
$833,333.50 Kyle Orton
$812,500.00 Mackenzy Bernadeau
$800,000.00 Gerald Sensabaugh
$750,000.00 Barry Church

There are the 2014 carry-over numbers from cutting these players now (2013):
$4,175,000.00 Doug Free
$1,400,000.00 Dan Connor

Originally Posted by jterrell

which would be fine but is literally impossible because Carr has guaranteed money coming still this year in his 15m base.

that's why he'll have much of that converted and handed to him this off-season.

then it will be a completely different number. calling any number associated with releasing carr 2m is about an agenda not reality.

If you re-read the original post, nowhere did I say anything other than here are the 2014 numbers at this minute.

I said in the original post that some of the listed numbers would change drastically after restructuring.

You seem to be reading something into the Original Post that was not there.

[Hoofbite]

Originally Posted by xwalker

If cut, the remaining prorated bonus money is spread out over 2 years (June 1st cut).

2M + 2M + 2M = 6M

6M/2 = 2M in 2014, 2M in 2015

Does that apply to call of the cuts?

Pretty sure you can only designate a couple of players as June 1st cuts unless you were just pointing out how low the possible cap hit could be if Dallas waited until June 1st to cut all those guys.

[LatinMind]

Originally Posted by Hoofbite

Does that apply to call of the cuts?

Pretty sure you can only designate a couple of players as June 1st cuts unless you were just pointing out how low the possible cap hit could be if Dallas waited until June 1st to cut all those guys.

Think the only one that will be designated will be Free.

Ratliff i think could be a june cut if they feel they have enough on the team at that point. Fa and the draft will be telling if Ratliff will be released IMO. If they go heavy in the DT dept then Ratliff is gone.

[speedkilz88]

Originally Posted by Hoofbite

Does that apply to call of the cuts?

Pretty sure you can only designate a couple of players as June 1st cuts unless you were just pointing out how low the possible cap hit could be if Dallas waited until June 1st to cut all those guys.

I'm not sure if there is a limit (not sure why there would be) since you actually can wait until June 2 (the real date) and cut them. Designating them early as June 1 (or 2nd) cuts helps the player not the team, giving them all of free agency to find a new team before the cap space of teams are diminished. The team still has to wait for the June 2 date before it helps them cap wise.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by speedkilz88

I'm not sure if there is a limit (not sure why there would be) since you actually can wait until June 2 (the real date) and cut them. Designating them early as June 1 (or 2nd) cuts helps the player not the team, giving them all of free agency to find a new team before the cap space of teams are diminished. The team still has to wait for the June 2 date before it helps them cap wise.

in the previous CBA it was 2 players.

not sure if that provision remained or not.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by xwalker

If you re-read the original post, nowhere did I say anything other than here are the 2014 numbers at this minute.

I said in the original post that some of the listed numbers would change drastically after restructuring.

You seem to be reading something into the Original Post that was not there.

the title of the original post is future salary cap hell (or not).

the "purpose" is pretty clearly to detail how we are not in any future cap danger.

my point is that your means to do so are simply absurd. you are trying point to numbers which are not in any way real numbers. They won't exist in 2014 thus make little difference in 2014 when they "would exist".

i love the vast majority of your work to be sure and i'd just ignore this if it was from a lesser source but i have enough respect for you to critique.

Dallas is NOT gutting this team prior to Romo leaving due to cap issues but at the same time they have been frugal for a few seasons really. The cap has been a very real issue. We did sign Carr last year but it will be very costly going forward and it did mean 2nd/3rd tier help along the OL, at Safety and at LB.