The fallacy of the playcalling argument - Page 6 - Dallas Cowboys Forum

CoCo · 02-17-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocolate Lab

And if you don't want to believe that, listen to other observers around the league. Pretty much none of them think Garrett is a top playcaller or OC.

I know you dismissed those listed by Fuzzy but I would be interested in hearing the names of these observers around the league you're referring to.

CoCo · 02-17-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoCo

I know you dismissed those listed by Fuzzy but I would be interested in hearing the names of these observers around the league you're referring to.

On second thought it really is immaterial. There isn't an expert in the league that will condemn Garrett as OC or playcaller. No one is going to be that critical publicly even if they feel that way privately.

Beyond that, those who speak highly of Garrett - Aikman to name one - are simply dismissed as "fanboys."

The fact is that there is no compelling evidence to suggest that Garrett's work is either beyond criticism nor that it is subpar. For every positive statistic, it's dismissed by his critics by "well with Romo, Dez, Witten & more any OC could put up those numbers" or "that's because they play from behind so often." For the shortcomings its explained away by the lack of talent on the O-line or durability at RB.

It's really a debate that goes nowhere. Some like Garrett, others do not.

FuzzyLumpkins · 02-17-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocolate Lab

Fuzzy, you're successfully dragging me into the muck on this, but let me simplify: Your premise on not knowing if someone is a good playcaller or not was that you don't know enough of the details of the play to evaluate. Free was just an example, but the point is that if you carry that out, you could just say that none of us fans know enough to evaluate anything on the field because we don't know every single variable that the coaches and players know. We don't know the technique a player was asked to play. We don't know the injury status of every player. And so on.

But that's fine, you can hide behind that if you want to. I'll continue to know that Garrett is average at best -- at the very best -- as a playcaller and OC. (I do like how you cited a collection of Garrett fanboys as evidence to the contrary, though.)

Drag you down in to the muck? More like you are trying to dodge my point. I never said everyvariable but at least some of the variables.

Specific examples. That is all I am asking for.

Free was certainly an example. An example of how you can give specifics to demonstrate your point. Now you have resorted to whining about it instead of arguing the point.

I mean heaven forbid you actually mentioning some of the plays he called if you are going to criticize them. Know the plays he calls and what went wrong is not an unfair standard. You fail on both counts.

Deal with it.

FuzzyLumpkins · 02-17-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

You have Ed Reed and Ray Lewis publicly saying the same thing.

I am sure if you gave Andy Reid a six pack and a box of donuts, he would also fess up the same.

And do you really think that Ed Reed and Ray Lewis were saying this about the Cowboys offense after we put up 481 yards on them?

superpunk · 02-20-2013

I can't start threads so I'll just leave this here.

http://sturminator.blogspot.com/2013...s-of-data.html

Quote:

My point, would be this: In 2012, the Cowboys' would spend all week designing a game plan that they thought would best work against their opponents. Then, at game-time, they would find that their game plan was completely ineffective and scrap it. This would happen at halftime sometimes, 3rd Quarter other times, and even sometimes well before halftime. When they would scrap their game plan (a balanced attack with multiple personnel groupings and formations) and go exclusively to a 2-minute drill offense that was 100% shotgun and 100% 11 personnel, they would then find the ability to get yards and ultimately, points.
....
And that happened over and over and over in 2012. Especially at home. The following is a look at the amount of time the Cowboys had the ball with the lead in their 8 home games. The information is accurate and impossible to believe.

Opponent Time with the lead
Tampa Bay 17:58
Chicago 0:00
[View Full Quote]

Quote:

If that doesn't prove it, I don't know what would. Admittedly, I am only providing data here and not solutions. But, look at that data. This year, the Cowboys found 47% of their snaps and 53% of their yards from just scrapping their plans and running the same 8 plays over and over again from their 2-minute/3rd Down offense.

This leads to bigger issues - such as being one of the easiest teams in the league to game plan against and also putting all of your success on your QB. So much for "Romo-Friendly". Now, it is "Romo only" and one of those years where you wonder what might have happened if he got hurt.

But, think about what this says. This says that all of that film breakdown and game planning all week was largely an exercise in futility. They keep coming back to the only thing they could do.

Six years in and this is the best we can manage.

"It demonstrates that the 2012 Cowboys had the 52nd best season in Cowboys history in running the football. Technically, they had the worst rushing season in Cowboys history on a per-game basis, but the 1960 Cowboys finish last due to a 12 game season. Had they 16 weeks, we are reasonably sure that the '60 Cowboys might have been able to find 217 more yards on the ground.

Think about that. Of all of the Cowboys teams ever, you might have just witnessed the single worst year of rushing the ball. Brutal on every level.

In fact, if you wish, the Cowboys seasons of running the football with Jason Garrett as the offensive architect rank 52nd, 35th, 37th, 20th, 42nd, and 40th in Cowboys history. That's right. His best season is only 20th best in the history of the franchise. And before you tell me it is because the league has changed to a passing league, explain this: The New England Patriots (perhaps the most pass-first team in the NFL, right?) have run the ball 398 more times than the Cowboys in the Garrett-era. And as you can see, 398 represents an entire season of Garrett rushing attempts. I will repeat: the Patriots have run an entire year's worth of rushing plays more than Garrett in 6 seasons."

FuzzyLumpkins · 02-20-2013

Our offensive line preventing us from running a balanced attack is hardly uncommon knowledge. We couldn't execute the plays and if we cart out Ryan, Bern and Free again we will get the same results. A lot of this has to be on the front office picking inadequate players to play offensive line. I believe Risen hearkened them semi-pro.

Clove · 02-20-2013

I just don't know how the campo era ended.. We needed better players.