greatest quarterback ever

[Doomsday]

Originally Posted by TwentyOne

Elway is the same story like McNabb. Plays great in the season but sucks when it counts. Just look at SB 1989 (88? can't remember exactly).

Are you kidding me? Sucked when it counts? You ever hear of the drive? No one had more comeback wins in the 4th quarter then John Elway, he was at his best when the game was on the line.

[ghst187]

Hard to be considered "great" without being clutch at key times and winning the SB. I don't think you can take anything away from anyone for having a certain system or RB or surrounding cast because you do what you can with what you're given.
Definitely have to say:
Montana- WCO or no, he won games and made plays when his team needed him, yes it hurts me to say it as a Cowboy fan but he was one of the top 5 easily
Aikman, the guy was money in the clutch everytime, the only hiccup I ever remember was the Switzer NFC Championship game vs the 69ers.
John Elway, singlehandedly made his team a contender until Shanahan, T Davis, a great OL, S Sharpe, and a good D came along to put them over the top.
Marino, singlehandedly made some average teams very good. Even though he didn't win one and rarely had a running game or defense, he was amazing.
I think when its all said and done, Payton Manning and Favre will be mentioned in the club also.
I think you have to measure the #1 greatest by the criteria, if you're playing in the SB, down by 10 to start the 4th quarter, who do you want under center?
As much as I'd hate to admit it, I'd have to say Montana.
Aikman and Elway would be close seconds though.

[Champsheart]

I realize there probably is no one else on this planet that would agree with me who I think is the greatest QB of all time, and that is fine.

When looking at Football players to me there is several factors that come into play because it is a team game with so many factors, and 21 other starters you are depending on.

You can look at stats, titles, and all kinds of things. I like to just watch the guy play, and judge with what I see and feel about a player.

IMO Dan Fouts was the best I ever saw play.

If those Charger teams would have ever had half a defense he would have 3 or 4 rings, and the Stats to back it up. I just loved watching him drop back and sling the rock.

[Zaxor]

Originally Posted by Doomsday

Shannon Sharpe

Shannon played after those 3 SB's

[jman]

Originally Posted by THUMPER

Here are my top-5 QBs of all-time:

1. Otto Graham: Led his team to the championship game in every season he played winning 7 out of 10. Great passer, fierce competitor, cool under pressure, Graham had it all. His record for rushing TDs by a QB wasn't broken until 1999 by Steve Young even though he wasn't known as a runner. He was the top rated QB 6 times, 2nd and 3rd twice each. Other QBs at that time were: Sid Luckman, Sammy Baugh, YA Tittle, Norm Van Brocklin, Bob Waterfield, & Bobby Layne, all Hall of Famers.

[View Full Quote]2. Johnny Unitas: Johhny U was one of my heroes when I was a kid and even to this day when I play QB I am Johnny U with my black hightop cleats. When healthy there was no one better. He played hurt for most of his career and still set records that weren't broken until Marino came along in a pass friendly era. Unitas set those records when the rules favored the defense and the running game. He was the master of the play-fake, had a great arm with excellent accuracy either short or deep. Receivers said his were the easiest passes to catch because of the touch he had on them. In an era when QBs called their own plays he was the best at it.

3. Roger Staubach: When you list the attributes an NFL QB needs to have leadership has to rank among the top and Roger was the best leader ever to don pads. His teammates routinely stepped up when he was in the game because they knew he could lead them to a win. His stats would be much better if he had played more than 8.5 years as a starter. In that time he led the Cowboys to 4 SBs winning 2 of them and losing 2 close ones to the Steelers. Respected even by those who played against him. Jack Lambert said he was the toughest QB he ever faced and the only one he ever respected. If I had to pick one guy to lead my team he would be it.

4. Sammy Baugh: Consider the era when Baugh played then look at what he accomplished. The ball was fat and rounded instead of pointed and was much more difficult to throw accurately yet Baugh completed passes at what would be considered good now. His career completion % of 56.5 blows away everyone else who played in that era except Sid Luckman's 54.6%. In 1945 Baugh completed 70.3% of his passes, that record wasn't broken until the pass friendly 80s by Ken Anderson (and in a strike shortened season at that). Baugh was also an outstanding Punter and DB. His punting records will probably NEVER be broken. His 51.3 yard average still stands as does his lifetime average of 44.9. He is credited with 28 INTs as a DB but the league didn't start keeping individual INT stats until his 5th season when he had already established a reputation for picking off passes so no one really know how many he had but probably at least double that number which would put him in the top-10 all time. Probably the best all-around player ever.

5. Joe Montana: This was a tossup between Montana, Elway, and Marino but I chose to go with Montana because of his success and leadership although Marino was a better pure passer and Elway was a better player. Montana had similar qualities to Staubach in terms of leadership. His numbers might be inflated by the pass-happy system he played in but there is no denying the success he enjoyed and the games they won mostly due to his leadership.

Ahhhh, someone gets it...Everyone (most everyone) thinks it has to be someone they saw play or have some sort of resent memory. Lets not forget about those who came first may still be the best.

[StonetheCrow77]

Quincy Carter!!!!!!!!!!

[big dog cowboy]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitta31

No, Joe Montana is the Anti- ....

[THUMPER]

Originally Posted by jman

Ahhhh, someone gets it...Everyone (most everyone) thinks it has to be someone they saw play or have some sort of resent memory. Lets not forget about those who came first may still be the best.

To me you have to measure greatness, not simply by who has the best stats, but by how they played against the competition of the day and the rules/style in effect when they played.

Baugh's stats are incredible when you consider that teams ran almost exclusively at the time. Also, when you take into account the shape of the ball was designed for kicking rather than throwing, his accuracy and completion % are unbelieveable! He was an all-pro at QB, Punter, and DB, easily one of the best players of all-time.

Graham, came into the AAFC with a new team in a new league and dominated from day-1. The year the AAFC merged with the NFL his team won the championship. In his 6 seasons in the NFL he led the NFL in passing 3 times, was 2nd twice, and 3rd once and that was with guys like YA Tittle, Norm Van Brocklin, Bobby Layne, and Bob Waterfield (all HoFers) were playing.

He also played at a time when the rules favored the defender in the passing game. They could mug the receiver all day long. Most players still went both ways then so his receivers were far from fresh, some of them were DEs on defense.

I never saw Graham play except on tape but my dad did and said he has never seen a better QB in his life. The guy was accurate, strong, smart, tough, had a will to win unmatched by anyone except Staubach, could make any throw, and his teammates loved him. My dad was a Rams fan and hated the Browns so this wasn't a "homer's" viewpoint. The guys that played with and against him said no one was better, ever.

True, he had a great team around him and the legendary Paul Brown as HC but others have had that kind of supporting cast and not had anywhere near the success Graham had. 10 consecutive championship games is a feat never even approached by another team in pro football.

Nice to see that someone else has the same view I do.

[kidcard76]

ive already said unitas was the best and given reasons... now for my top 15 list

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Joe Montana
3. Otto Graham
4. John Elway
5. Dan Marino
6. Sammy Baugh
7. Roger Staubach
8. Bart Starr
9. Warren Moon
10. John Brodie
11. Roman Gabrial
12. YA Tittle
13. Brett Favre
14. Kenny Anderson
15. Dan Fouts


thats just the way it is........

[Rack Bauer]

Originally Posted by Dayton_Cowboy

Rack,

To play Devils Advocate.. Elway did not win jack til he had Terrell Davis. I would have to argue that he didn't due jack in the sense of superbowls til the focus was not on him throwing the ball but Davis running it..

I will find it interesting to see how Brady is compared when he finally hangs up his cleats.. All he does is win. Isnt that what its all about?

Again, name me ONE QB in history that won a superbowl by himself. Name me a guy that didn't have great players around him, but won a superbowl.

Montana took the Chiefs to the AFC championship game and made the playoffs the next year, and KC did not run a WCO.

Pretty sure KC did run a WCO at that time.

Elway is the same story like McNabb. Plays great in the season but sucks when it counts. Just look at SB 1989 (88? can't remember exactly).

Dumbest

Statement

Ever.


BY FAR!

[Maikeru-sama]

Im only 26 years of age, so I cannot speak on the old fellas but the best quarterback I have seen is Joe Montana.

The best quarterback that I have seen recently is Tom Brady. I will probably not be able to see him outside the Patriots' System but in that system, he is one of the most clutch quarterbacks I have seen.

He wont be fully appreciated until long after he hangs up the cleats.

- Mike G.

[CanadaBoys]

all bias aside... If I have to win 1 game..... I'm taking Joe Montana.

Elway was #2...
Bradshaw is REDICULOUSLY overrated... played on the most stacked teams ever.

[Cowboy Junkie]

I think Farve is the most over rated QB of all time.
When Dallas was reaching the playoffs regularly I used to wish for the Greenbay Match up Because I knew if we pressured Farve he would throw the game away by the middle of the 2nd quarter and it was nice to see year before last that Farve still had it.Remember the No look pass to the Eagles.I always felt in the early and mid ninties Farve would throw it up for grabs when pressured cause he didnt want to get hit.If not that than why?
Now it is easy to forget his erratic play due to all the numbers over the years but as I said year before last was a reminder of what Farve is made of.
Numbers can be deceiving.
I know Farve won a superbowl.He can thank the Dallas collaspe for that.
I cant pick one but I am loyal. Aikman fallowed by Elway

[Carolina Cowboy]

Originally Posted by kidcard76

marino? no.....elway? no....... montana?...... no Staubach? no...... then who?????

the answer my fellow cowboys fans is simple.... what do u get when you combine a canon for an arm.. poise and finese... great work ethic... great acuracy... and one of the best signal callers ever??? you get John Constintine Unitas... Johnny Unitias is the best QB to ever throw a football... he is the 3rd best football player in history only losing out to jim thorpe and red grange... john unitas was the complete package... he is one of the reasons i played high school football.. when he passed on september 11th 2002 the world lost a legend... now dont get me wrong... marino elway montana starr staubach namath were all GREAT PLAYERS... but non of them could hold a candle to the abalility to johnny u.

We have a winner. Man called his own games to boot.

[THUMPER]

Originally Posted by kidcard76

ive already said unitas was the best and given reasons... now for my top 15 list

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Joe Montana
3. Otto Graham
4. John Elway
5. Dan Marino
6. Sammy Baugh
7. Roger Staubach
8. Bart Starr
9. Warren Moon
10. John Brodie
11. Roman Gabrial
12. YA Tittle
13. Brett Favre
14. Kenny Anderson
15. Dan Fouts


thats just the way it is........

I was with you until you got to John Brodie and Roman Gabriel. They don't belong on any top-QB list IMO.

The thing I remember most about Brodie was the playoff game when he was flagged twice for intentional grounding because of our pass-rush. The fact that both times it was on 3rd down and forced them to punt made it even better. He was a better golfer than a QB. He was a good QB but not all that.

Gabriel was a very tough guy but he wasn't all that as a QB. He had some excellent seasons but not many and he played on some very good Rams teams. He had a tough time hanging onto the starting job early in his career. His competition was Bill Munson who beat him out several times. Gabriel had a cannon for an arm but no touch on the ball at all. He just threw it as hard as he could every time whether it was a 50-yard bomb or a screen pass. I loved his ability to shed tacklers and get rid of the ball with 3-4 guys hanging on him but he was notriously inaccurate and made mistakes at the worst possible times.

He did have a great season late in his career when he was with the Eagles in 1973 and led the league in passing that year.

Just my opinion though.