Do we already have enough speed at WR?

[silver]

Originally Posted by Natedawg44

If the final 5 WRs end up being Keyshawn, Glenn, Morgan, Crayton and Copper aren't 3 of those guys sub 4.4 forty players?
Copper, Glenn, and Morgan

no. copper runs 4.55. glenn is the only true burner of all 5 of them

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

I think you are severely overrating our offense at this point.

Jones looked good, but he did get hurt twice, so he's not yet a given, Barber is a rookie and Thomas got released.

Bledsoe is an average NFL QB.

The OL has questions with age, injuries and RT.

Witten is the only thing close to a sure thing, IMO.

We are far from a speed WR away from being undefenseable.

As far as championships, I'll take a dominant defense anyday.

How does that effect the need for a WR who can stretch the field? You may be right but when I see our Offense, the only weakness I see are RT, Speed at WR and possibly QB, if we can't protect. I agree, we have some issue with age but I don't see our Guards falling off the face of the earth this season.

Look at everybodies offense in the league. Tell me who is better?

As far as defense, well, that's fine and I don't disagree but IMO, our defense is much further away then our offense, at this point. The teams of the early 90s were good defensively but I wouldn't say they were dominating. It was the Offense that drove that team.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by kartr

Speed is not so important for your WR's if you have a QB with enough mobility to not trip over his own two feet and fumble the ball excessively. McNabb's elusiveness buys his receivers time to get open late for the big play, remember the play he made against us on the Monday night game. He ran about 40 yards from side to side and then threw deep to a wide open receiver for the TD. Nabby also runs to his right like he's going to turn the corner and then at the last minute pulls up throws to the open receiver after the corner comes after him, much like Elway and Young and Montana used to do.

I don't agree. For all his mobility, McNabb hasn't won. In fact, none of the real mobile QBs have won without a good supporting cast. You gotta have both or you won't win IMO.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

I don't agree. For all his mobility, McNabb hasn't won. In fact, none of the real mobile QBs have won without a good supporting cast. You gotta have both or you won't win IMO.

Most yards gained by a QB in a SB was 68 yards and that was McNair on the losing end of the game aginst Warner. yet another pocket QB. Mobility is a great assest but does not make a QB great, his job is to feed the ball to others and the guys who can do that have a better chance of leading their team to the SB and winning it.

[JDSmith]

I think you guys are confusing a mobile QB with a running QB. A QB can be plenty mobile without running for yardage, he simply has to be nimble and elusive enough to buy time for the completion.

When Bill Walsh was asked about the most important thing that a QB needed to be able to do to run his offense he said,"He's got to be able to make the first guy miss." And Walsh said that was one of the things about Montana that's often overlooked. Look no further than NE for a guy who does the same things. Brady will step one way or the other to buy himself enough time and make the completion. He's very elusive without being a running threat.

McNabb's problem, along with guys like Vick, is that IMO he doesn't look for the pass enough and simply takes off running. The last few years McNabb has seemed to get that under control, as illustrated by the play against us in which he ran around the backfield for 14 seconds looking to pass. Vick may or may not ever learn to stay in the backfield and think pass, so he may or may not ever become a very good QB.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by JDSmith

I think you guys are confusing a mobile QB with a running QB. A QB can be plenty mobile without running for yardage, he simply has to be nimble and elusive enough to buy time for the completion.

When Bill Walsh was asked about the most important thing that a QB needed to be able to do to run his offense he said,"He's got to be able to make the first guy miss." And Walsh said that was one of the things about Montana that's often overlooked. Look no further than NE for a guy who does the same things. Brady will step one way or the other to buy himself enough time and make the completion. He's very elusive without being a running threat.

[View Full Quote]McNabb's problem, along with guys like Vick, is that IMO he doesn't look for the pass enough and simply takes off running. The last few years McNabb has seemed to get that under control, as illustrated by the play against us in which he ran around the backfield for 14 seconds looking to pass. Vick may or may not ever learn to stay in the backfield and think pass, so he may or may not ever become a very good QB.

I don't think so JD. It doesn't matter if you have a running QB or a Mobile QB. If you don't have the supporting cast, then there not going to win.

The original point of a WR who can stretch the field is the same with any type of QB. You can get a QB who can scramble around and buy time for a slower WR to get open but in the final analysis, you have to have somebody who can force a defense to defend all of the field. If you can't do that, eventually they will force you to play there style of football. At least, that's my opinion on the subject.

[Chocolate Lab]

ABQ, I don't exactly disagree with you on needing a speed WR, but obviously Parcells does... Do you not agree with his slug-it-out, ball control style?

[ThEpLyMaKeR88]

we are good enough with glenn it isn't a need to have a speed WR but it can help a offense but if the guy is all speed wats the point i rather have a possession Wr then a track star

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by Chocolate Lab

ABQ, I don't exactly disagree with you on needing a speed WR, but obviously Parcells does... Do you not agree with his slug-it-out, ball control style?

I absolutly do. I'm a huge fan of high pressure defense with a ball control offense, predicated on a power running game.

All the more reason for speed to stretch the field.

With speed at WR, a defense must play honest. I'm not just talking a track guy but somebody who can actually catch. If you have this in your offense, it creates room for the running game and the TEs. It is the difference between a guy like Belicheck being able to game plan you and watching you on film and telling his coaching staff, "This is a team we will have to out score."

There is no substitue for speed. You must have it at WR to force defenses to play the whole field vertically. You must also have it at RB to force defenses to play the whole field horizontally. It's really not about being fast so much as it is creating space offensively.

[LaTunaNostra]

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

There is no substitue for speed. You must have it at WR to force defenses to play the whole field vertically. You must also have it at RB to force defenses to play the whole field horizontally. It's really not about being fast so much as it is creating space offensively.

Wow, perfectly expressed, ABQ..without speed the field just shrinks.

[JDSmith]

I disagree that the field shrinks without speed. The field shrinks when you don't take shots downfield. The field shrinks when you can't protect your QB and allow routes to develop. But you don't need any extreme speed to stretch the field. I saw AB catch a ball thrown 57 yards in the air, that's about the limit for a long ball and AB doesn't have great speed - I think he ran a 4.57 coming out of college. But we protected the QB and tried for the long pass. It's not a matter of having speed like Galloway, it's a matter of trying to throw long and making the defense respect what speed you do have.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by JDSmith

I disagree that the field shrinks without speed. The field shrinks when you don't take shots downfield. The field shrinks when you can't protect your QB and allow routes to develop. But you don't need any extreme speed to stretch the field. I saw AB catch a ball thrown 57 yards in the air, that's about the limit for a long ball and AB doesn't have great speed - I think he ran a 4.57 coming out of college. But we protected the QB and tried for the long pass. It's not a matter of having speed like Galloway, it's a matter of trying to throw long and making the defense respect what speed you do have.

Ding, ding, ding.

[dbair1967]

Originally Posted by LaTunaNostra

Wow, perfectly expressed, ABQ..without speed the field just shrinks.

No it doesnt...the field is small when you dont throw the ball down the field...nobody threw downfield more than us from 91-93 when Norv ran the offense, and Irvin, Harper and Kelvin Martin probably at best ran a 4.55...Aikman's yds per attempt was among the highest in the league all 3 yrs, because we threw the ball downfield

David

[LaTunaNostra]

Originally Posted by dbair1967

No it doesnt...the field is small when you dont throw the ball down the field...nobody threw downfield more than us from 91-93 when Norv ran the offense, and Irvin, Harper and Kelvin Martin probably at best ran a 4.55...Aikman's yds per attempt was among the highest in the league all 3 yrs, because we threw the ball downfield

David

Consider the offense run by Mike Martz. The speed of the receivers and even backs on crossing patterns are what allowed them to take relatively short passes long distances, because it enabled them to find the soft spots in the zones. No one tries to win with just possession receivers today. You can't.

Speed, be it employed vertically or horizontally opens up the field.

Of course any team has to be willing to throw downfield. But the way the game is played today, you don't need a QB chucking as far as he can to keep Ds honest..you need speed to make plays in the short and intermediate game, speed that then translates into as much YAC as possible. The cuts and speed of the receivers, and TE, will have to force the openings we need to be successful. It isn't just wcos that employ this strategy, it's virtually everyone.

Since Bill evidently plans not to have Drew compound his errors in Buffalo, and is not going to allow him to look to the long ball first and foremost , is going to make him check down and yes, dump off, it's speed that will ensure the 15-20 yard pass routes turn into something beautiful.

We are lucky Bledsoe has the golden arm to throw long. But we need speed to get down there to get them...there was a report from mini camp the receivers were surprised how fast this guy can get a ball out and downfield. We need speed as well as quickness to separate, cut and take advantage of his arm. But even more importantly we need the speed that controls the shorter middle of the field in today's game, because Tuna has evidently vowed that Bledsoe is going to have to master the short to intermediate passing game.

A ball control game, paradoxically, is now reliant on speed, as is every asset of the game from defensive line play on down.

[Banned_n_austin]

Originally Posted by JDSmith

I disagree that the field shrinks without speed. The field shrinks when you don't take shots downfield. The field shrinks when you can't protect your QB and allow routes to develop. But you don't need any extreme speed to stretch the field. I saw AB catch a ball thrown 57 yards in the air, that's about the limit for a long ball and AB doesn't have great speed - I think he ran a 4.57 coming out of college. But we protected the QB and tried for the long pass. It's not a matter of having speed like Galloway, it's a matter of trying to throw long and making the defense respect what speed you do have.

Exactly, speed won't hurt you though. But it is more about getting open and making the catch than anything.