Why was Marco Rivera given $9 million SB........... - Page 2 - Dallas Cowboys Forum

Doomsday101 · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles

I don't care about the size of the contract. I'll only pay a portion when I buy a couple of jerseys and attend one game a year

, but is there any doubt in your mind that the mediots would have screamed overpaid if Parcells wasn't our Head Coach.

I'm too the point that I don't care what the mediots say, If Rivera can go out there and help open up some holes for Jones and the other backs then all people and mediots will be saying is how great the Cowboys line is playing. I'm more concern with production than money right now

Charles · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

I don't think he is overpaid to play guard. He is a multi-probowler and dominant at the position. It may not be of the importance of tackle, but guard is still a necessary position. I have no problem with paying that much scratch to someone so dominant.

BTW - Mike Wahle signed a MUCH bigger contract, and though he can play tackle, he is better at and expected to play guard.

Adam Timmer a 2 time Pro Bowl guard signed with the Rams for $5.5 SB 5 yrs for 14 million. The Cowboys gave Rivera $3.5 million more in signing Bonus up front and $6 million more in contract earning potential over the same amount of years (5).

Timmer signed his contract last year in March. Most in the market thought Rivera would get similar contract and it was the bench mark.

I think it explains why Rivera didn't visit any other teams. Once Jerry Jones put up $9 millions Rivera was off the market. Daniel Synder gets ripped for making similar proposals and deals, but Jerry Jones has Bill Parcells in his back pocket for credability purposes.

Was Gurode that bad..... $3.5 million more upfront and $6 million more in earning potential as compared to Adam Timmerman.

While I agree that the plan is play Wahle at LG right now, it shouldn't come as no surprise if Wahle agent asked for Tackle type money too because the Panthers are hoping a 2nd year player in Travelle Wharton can play LT. If he fails they'll move Jordan Gross would move back to LT from RT and Wahle would move to RT where he has only started once in his career at Tackle.

Wahle was paid because of his versatility, not primarily due to his ability at Guard. Adam Timmermans contract is more Guard value and Timmer was 32 at the time of the signing, coincidentally so is Rivera.

InmanRoshi · 06-09-2005

Due to the feeding frenzies on the first days of free agency, you're faced with two possibilities .... either pay premium price above marketvalue to get the guy you want (2005 Offseason), or wait out and test the market and hope everything isn't picked clean and you end up with the Marcellus Wiley's of the NFL (2004 Offseason).

DLCassidy · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Why was Marco Rivera given $9 million SB...........

Because they offered him 8 and he wouldn't sign.

Charles · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

Due to the feeding frenzies on the first days of free agency, you're faced with two possibilities .... either pay premium price above marketvalue to get the guy you want (2005 Offseason),

Danny Synder's theory in a nut shell. Hopefully Rivera lives up to his billing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

or wait out and test the market and hope everything isn't picked clean and you end up with the Marcellus Wiley's of the NFL (2004 Offseason).

Damn those Patriots.

AdamJT13 · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles

Adam Timmer a 2 time Pro Bowl guard signed with the Rams for $5.5 SB 5 yrs for 14 million. The Cowboys gave Rivera $3.5 million more in signing Bonus up front and $6 million more in contract earning potential over the same amount of years (5).

Timmer signed his contract last year in March. Most in the market thought Rivera would get similar contract and it was the bench mark.

I think it explains why Rivera didn't visit any other teams. Once Jerry Jones put up $9 millions Rivera was off the market. Daniel Synder gets ripped for making similar proposals and deals, but Jerry Jones has Bill Parcells in his back pocket for credability purposes.

Was Gurode that bad..... $3.5 million more upfront and $6 million more in earning potential as compared to Adam Timmerman.

[View Full Quote]

Rivera's signing bonus was not $9 million, it was $8.125 million. And he got more than Timmerman because he's better than Timmerman, and because Timmerman didn't switch teams. Timmerman has never been voted to the Pro Bowl (he was an alternate twice and made it as an injury replacement), he has never been a Pro Bowl starter, and he wasn't coming off a Pro Bowl season when he re-signed with the Rams. Rivera, on the other hand, has been voted to the past three Pro Bowls, including the past two as a starter.

Besides, the market for guards wasn't set by Adam Timmerman, it was set by Damien Woody ($9 million signing bonus, $31 million over six years) and Randy Thomas ($7 million signing bonus, $27.6 million over six years). And Woody has been to only one Pro Bowl, and Thomas has never been to a Pro Bowl. Comparatively, even though Rivera is older, his five-year, $19 million contract and $8.125 million signing bonus are bargains for a player of his caliber.

Hollywood Henderson · 06-09-2005

Good point on a bargin if he can lead this Oline unit into a dominating group again Adam...

Love the guys leadership and it seems to have meshed with LA and maybe helped him become a vocal leader as well...

Good call Charles and also good points Chief...

I actually think this team is stocked (If healthy) with offensive weapons...

I think Flo, Larry, Johnson & now Rivera are poised for career years blockng for JJ & co.

We get a lead and now have the direction AND players on D to put the DOOMSDAY on other teams offenses again...

Ready for some new brand of Cowboys football?

Ashwynn · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood Henderson

I actually think this team is stocked (If healthy) with offensive weapons...

I think Flo, Larry, Johnson & now Rivera are poised for career years blockng for JJ & co.

Good point there too! I have thought the O did not need a complete overhaul, as the D really did need one, wether we stayed 4-3 and certainly if we switched to a 3-4. With an O line that is just solid, not spectacular, we will have enough offense to win many games. Bledsoes not 1/2 as bad as VT. his receivers are certainly servicable to better then average. Key I think is a VERY GOOD possession receiver. Key is a great blocker df when the balls not coming his way too. If one of the receivers steps up to Keys and glenns level of play, that will be good enough with a QB that can actually stand still 3 seconds. (I do wonder what VT would liook like behind a solid line too). We all know what we have in Witten, no worries there. RB should be fun to watch as they churn out first down after first down and TD after TD. With a good line JJ should look all pro and I think Barber is gunna be huge in red zone areas.

The D, man, I could go on for days about our D. But if they play up to half their potential, they will keep us in almost all the games, If they gel and play great, it could be 93-95 type cruise control D where only question was how many points we beat you by, not if we won or lost.

So it boils down to health. As you said, if they are all healthy on the Oline, I aint worried bout a thing. Only a matter of time till Bill has em all on the same page and when that happens, this O will be efficient, smart, productive and balanced (in the sence that you cant key on run or pass as a main Defensive strategy, you gotta be ready for both --- ala 93-95 Cowboys O).

Charles · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamJT13

Rivera's signing bonus was not $9 million, it was $8.125 million.

Yeah us regular folks really know the difference

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamJT13

And he got more than Timmerman because he's better than Timmerman, and because Timmerman didn't switch teams.

I agree Rivera is better than Timmerman, but is he almost $3 million (oops I mean $2.62500000) in gurranteed SB better than Timmerman over the same span of contract years, not to mention he's projected to earn about $6 million more dollars over the span of that 5 year deal.

What does not switching teams have to do with anything?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamJT13

Timmerman has never been voted to the Pro Bowl (he was an alternate twice and made it as an injury replacement), he has never been a Pro Bowl starter, and he wasn't coming off a Pro Bowl season when he re-signed with the Rams. Rivera, on the other hand, has been voted to the past three Pro Bowls, including the past two as a starter.

Larry Allen has also been voted to the Pro Bowl as starter 1998, '99, '00, '01. Years he clearly did not deserve to make the Pro Bowl. So you can take that statement for what its worth. I wonder who was backing up Larry Allen in the Pro Bowl some of those years........Adam Timmerman. Would you like to compare the Rams and the Cowboys during those years.

Look past the fluff Adamjt13.

Rivera deserves the Pro Bowl status, so did Timmerman, but some guys just get in on past Glory. While Rivera is a better Guard he isn't much better by those figures.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamJT13

Besides, the market for guards wasn't set by Adam Timmerman, it was set by Damien Woody ($9 million signing bonus, $31 million over six years) and Randy Thomas ($7 million signing bonus, $27.6 million over six years). And Woody has been to only one Pro Bowl, and Thomas has never been to a Pro Bowl. Comparatively, even though Rivera is older, his five-year, $19 million contract and $8.125 million signing bonus are bargains for a player of his caliber.

Damien Woody and Randy Thomas were 27 and 26 respectively when they signed their contracts.

Damien Woody is a G/C in his prime coming from a stellar organization where he had performed at the highest level at both positions. 27 year old Guard/Centers do not set the market for 32 year one dimensional guards (unless other roles like playing tackle

) have been discussed.

Danny Synder sets the market every time he signs a player and Rivera is most likely to see more money from his contract (Skins MO)......... so I'll just let that one slide

.

Local Milwaukee beat writers had even commented that Packers GM Ted Thompson wasn't even willing to meet the value set by Adam Timmerman a year earlier.

Either we overpayed or the Cowboys have plans to move Rivera around. You don't go handing out those kind of bonuses to 30 year old guards because they might blow out their back walking on a tread mill ( it can happen

). Even Jerry stated that Larry Allen got paid big time because of his versatility.

blindzebra · 06-09-2005

Gurode was awful.

Rivera is a pro bowl level player, with great leadership skills.

Did we overpay? Why should we care, we needed the upgrade and had more than enough cap to do it.

This is so a non-issue.

Charles · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Gurode was awful.

Rivera is a pro bowl level player, with great leadership skills.

Did we overpay? Why should we care, we needed the upgrade and had more than enough cap to do it.

This is so a non-issue.

My Hero....... whats up bro.

Hollywood Henderson · 06-09-2005

Good post too Ashwyn...

Gurode was not awful BZ...

But I don't think he has lived up to his potential...
I agree with others that C is perhaps his natural position...

Ether way, Rivera is a VERY good player and the bonus is we now have a leader & coach type on the field as well...

blindzebra · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood Henderson

Good post too Ashwyn...

Gurode was not awful BZ...

But I don't think he has lived up to his potential...
I agree with others that C is perhaps his natural position...

Ether way, Rivera is a VERY good player and the bonus is we now have a leader & coach type on the field as well...

Gurode lost his starting spot to Noll, he was awful and if Tarullo plays well he might not even make the team.

jimmy40 · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles

Why didn't you like my theory? I also deserve a pat on the back. I thought Marco Rivera would be a great fit 3 weeks before he was signed

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showth...Marc o+Rivera

Anyway, I totally agree that his intangibles are part of the package, plus his ability to make average RT into very good RT like Larry Allen did for Flozell on the other side, but $9 million is still too steep. That SB is the going rate for good Tackles.

Wasn't Flozell's best year Larry Allen's worst?

**jobberone** · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles

Why didn't you like my theory? I also deserve a pat on the back. I thought Marco Rivera would be a great fit 3 weeks before he was signed

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19334&page=2&pp=15&highlight=Marc o+Rivera

Anyway, I totally agree that his intangibles are part of the package, plus his ability to make average RT into very good RT like Larry Allen did for Flozell on the other side, but $9 million is still too steep. That SB is the going rate for good Tackles.

Good call but there were others pulling for Rivera to come here in Feb as well. His name even comes up in 2004.

Maybe he can move out to RT and if Gurode were to suddenly get it they could move him back. Doubt he does but it's possible as are multiple scenarios.

My guess is he stays there. I just hope he can still play up to his All Pro capabilities.