What are possible trades ...

[LaTunaNostra]

[quote=Nors]

Originally Posted by LaTunaNostra

Uhh, before you toss the last hand full of dirt over both of them, Nors, just remember that the "20%" fewer plays is by design - both have been playing far too many downs for max effectiveness - and not because either is not at the peak of his game.

What is starting to tick me off here is your refusal to see that our best defensive players are not freaking expendable. Why are you so anxious to bury them?

You can grasp the concept of a Richard Seymour or a Willie McGinest being highly effective "situational rotation guys" in the Pats system, but not Glover and Ellis?

It is not going to be all 3-4..and until Spears, Ware, Canty et al prove they can do anything, rest assured Glover and Ellis are still "the man".



PLEASE DON'T TALK FOR ME.

[View Full Quote]I said Ellis IS expendable if Canty is healthy. He no longer fits best in what we are doing. I would trade him for the right price. What exactly have we ever done in the Ellis era?

I don't want to trade Glover. He is a valuable player for us in many roles. Please don't insinuate I am trying to trade Glover. I only said Ellis, who already has publicly gone after Parcells with his "Whats my role" quote thru press. A nono

You are talking for YOURSELF. And the virtual GLEE with which you keep repeating Ellis and Glover no longer fit is apparent.

"What we are doing" is running a 3-4 AND a 4-3. NOT an exclusive 3-4.

Regardless of Canty's health, Greg Ellis figures to be an essential player, this year.

I wouldn't equate any "what's my role" reportage by Ellis (or Glover) with Hutch's misguided query. And Ellis hasn't "gone after" Parcells. There is mucho mutual respect between these two. On Bill's side, there has been obvious affection as well.

Just as some were quick to see Dat's role diminished by the implementation of a part-time 3-4, to the point where a trade for J Howard was welcomed, the message should be clear:

GOOD PLAYERS ARE GOOD PLAYERS..REGARDLESS OF SCHEME. YOU DON'T BUILD A WINNER BY UNLOADING YOUR BEST TALENT.

[junk]

Originally Posted by LaTunaNostra

GOOD PLAYERS ARE GOOD PLAYERS..REGARDLESS OF SCHEME. YOU DON'T BUILD A WINNER BY UNLOADING YOUR BEST TALENT.

But you push for it if they don't fit your agenda.

[Big Country]

Originally Posted by Banned_n_austin

The only reason I think there may be a possible trade is because we have so many DE's.

May the best ones win...

[Big Country]

Originally Posted by big dog cowboy

These trade Ellis and trade Glover threads are getting old. Neither is going anywhere. We finally get some decent depth on our D-line and people start thinking all kinds of crazy thoughts. The key to the success of our D during the super bowl run in the 90's was our depth along the line. We had a hella good pass rushing DE and enough depth to keep coming after our opponets all game long. Depth - it's a good thing.

AMEN brother!!

[Nors]

[quote=LaTunaNostra]

Originally Posted by Nors

You are talking for YOURSELF. And the virtual GLEE with which you keep repeating Ellis and Glover no longer fit is apparent.

"What we are doing" is running a 3-4 AND a 4-3. NOT an exclusive 3-4.

Regardless of Canty's health, Greg Ellis figures to be an essential player, this year.

I wouldn't equate any "what's my role" reportage by Ellis (or Glover) with Hutch's misguided query. And Ellis hasn't "gone after" Parcells. There is mucho mutual respect between these two. On Bill's side, there has been obvious affection as well.

Just as some were quick to see Dat's role diminished by the implementation of a part-time 3-4, to the point where a trade for J Howard was welcomed, the message should be clear:

GOOD PLAYERS ARE GOOD PLAYERS..REGARDLESS OF SCHEME. YOU DON'T BUILD A WINNER BY UNLOADING YOUR BEST TALENT.

Again - Nors has said

*Base 3-4 and will play some 4-3
*The aging Glover will be a key rotational player for us. Keeper
* Ellis is a good player that just might not fit in. And as I said before - what have we won in his era? Time to get Spears, Canty, Ratliff, Ware on the field.
We can get a player, 2nd round pick do it. We were 28th in NFL in points allowed last year - thank god we are changing players and scheme!

[StonetheCrow77]

Ellis might not fit in... but, I bet he plays better than all the rooks do this year... just because they have potential doesn't mean squat... heck, they may not fit in, either...

[big dog cowboy]

[quote=Nors]

Originally Posted by LaTunaNostra

We were 28th in NFL in points allowed last year - thank god we are changing players and scheme!

That still doesn't mean you trade one of your best defensive players. I would suggest the loss of Woodson had more effect on our ranking of 28th in points allowed than anything else last year. Without Woody, either front 7 scheme would have been doomed. Don't forget the worthless Wiley factor as well.

[junk]

[quote=Nors]

Originally Posted by LaTunaNostra

Again - Nors has said

*Base 3-4 and will play some 4-3
*The aging Glover will be a key rotational player for us. Keeper
* Ellis is a good player that just might not fit in. And as I said before - what have we won in his era? Time to get Spears, Canty, Ratliff, Ware on the field.
We can get a player, 2nd round pick do it. We were 28th in NFL in points allowed last year - thank god we are changing players and scheme!

And those are valid points except perhaps on Ellis. When you are rebuilding a team, you don't scrap everyone. You have to be able to work with what you have as well and use the good pieces already in place.

Ellis isn't a world beater, but he is a solid, proven and economical DE. Spears, Canty, Ratliff and Ware haven't proven a thing yet. They could all be massive busts. Who knows? There have been a lot of feel good stories on Ratliff, but the guy was a 7th round pick and is going to be pressed to make the team.

What would the trade market be for him? Howard is a better end and the Saints couldn't get any offers. The one thing that makes Ellis more attractive as trade bait is his salary.

What if BP doesn't like the way the 3-4 looks in training camp with less than ideal LBers, no NT depth and a lack of experience in the system. Only one of the draft picks played 3-4 in college and he might not be healthy to start the season. All of sudden, Ellis is a must have if the 4-3 gets played a lot. I have yet to see any proof that Ellis would be a worse 3-4 end than Spears or Ratliff at this point either. He might excel at it.

And as far as Glover being "situational", I bet he ends up being a "situational" guy that plays about 75% of the snaps when its all said and done.

[Nors]

[quote=junk][quote=Nors]

And those are valid points except perhaps on Ellis. When you are rebuilding a team, you don't scrap everyone. You have to be able to work with what you have as well and use the good pieces already in place.

Ellis isn't a world beater, but he is a solid, proven and economical DE. Spears, Canty, Ratliff and Ware haven't proven a thing yet. They could all be massive busts. Who knows? There have been a lot of feel good stories on Ratliff, but the guy was a 7th round pick and is going to be pressed to make the team.

What would the trade market be for him? Howard is a better end and the Saints couldn't get any offers. The one thing that makes Ellis more attractive as trade bait is his salary.


I love Glover - He can be a real asset to our team. 75% snaps? Parcells says 60% but 75% might be spot on. I am 100% keeping him here.

Ellis likely stays unless he asks out. Playing RDE in a 3-4 is going to be an "adjustment" to him.

Our LB situation with Ware, Burnett, Shanle in the wings is bigger and better than last years unit. Al S likely meets the Turk at a $2M Cap #.

[junk]

[quote=Nors][quote=junk]

Originally Posted by Nors

And those are valid points except perhaps on Ellis. When you are rebuilding a team, you don't scrap everyone. You have to be able to work with what you have as well and use the good pieces already in place.

Ellis isn't a world beater, but he is a solid, proven and economical DE. Spears, Canty, Ratliff and Ware haven't proven a thing yet. They could all be massive busts. Who knows? There have been a lot of feel good stories on Ratliff, but the guy was a 7th round pick and is going to be pressed to make the team.

What would the trade market be for him? Howard is a better end and the Saints couldn't get any offers. The one thing that makes Ellis more attractive as trade bait is his salary.


I love Glover - He can be a real asset to our team. 75% snaps? Parcells says 60% but 75% might be spot on. I am 100% keeping him here.

[View Full Quote]Ellis likely stays unless he asks out. Playing RDE in a 3-4 is going to be an "adjustment" to him.

Our LB situation with Ware, Burnett, Shanle in the wings is bigger and better than last years unit. Al S likely meets the Turk at a $2M Cap #.

I agree with most of this. No doubt 3-4 end will be an adjustment for Ellis. He might excel, but I can't see him being below average there.

I like the LB potential much better than last year, however, the 3-4 puts more emphasis on LBers. Is that where the playmakers are in this front seven? Ware, Burnett and Shanle are all unproven. James struggled last year. Singleton is what he is, a solid, unspectacular starter. Would not be surprised to see him stay or go. The rest of the guys are pretty non descript. The success of the 3-4 depends on how well these guys step up.

I do like the ability to play both and the addition of guys that can do both. I think that is why we didn't see BP pursue pure 3-4 guys like Marques Douglas and Ed Hartwell (even though Atlanta is trying him in a 4-3, I think he is a 3-4 backer through and through)