Cowboys officially part with Hutchinson - Page 4 - Dallas Cowboys Forum

LaTunaNostra · 07-28-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hostile

The bottom line is some people think Q is the next best thing and some of us just don't see it.

There are also many of us who support Quincy who don't think he 's the next best thing", but see both enough talent in him, and progress last year to believe with another year under his belt he will be a successful QB.

Quote:

Now we have people already lined up against Henson when he has not done anything to warrant it other than be acquired.

We also have some ABCers whose support for Drew revolves around the fact he is not Quincy, and are doing their best to turn the Carter-Hutchinson nonsense into Carter-Henson nonsense. Unfortunately, the immediate proclaiming of Henson as the "franchise", without even waiting to see him throw one pass, agitated, not ameliorated the 'controversy".

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It looks very much like anyone who threatens Q's status is demonized.

TH, you too over-generalize, and tar the reasonable Carter supporters with the extremist brush with statements like that. We've almost all let the real hater/redneck/ABC faction and the Quincy-before-team faction set the parameters of the discourse. Hopefully, with less unfair and more reasonable criticism of Carter, the tendency to over protect him will evaporate. I know my own support of Carter is based on belief he has talent, and faith in Bill's decisions, but is also augmented by disgust at the low life commentary about his "tongue", and other expressions of profound, unabashed ignorance that do nothing but inflame.

But I do have faith the nature of the debate can change. Why, I don't know. but I do.

Jimz31 · 07-28-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hostile

No, I don't see what you are saying. We both know that reasonable fans on both sides of the issue have worn unfair labels. JT sticks a couple more unfair labels out there and I need to wear it?

Number 1, not every doubter of Q liked or wanted Hutch. I damn sure didn't.

Number 2, leveling accusations because they were leveled at you doesn't make it right. I was accused of racism by one of Q's strongest supporters. Have I retaliated and done the same to his defenders?

There is no good excuse for the kind of crap he just wrote. None. Lack of respect for people's opinions to the point you need to belittle them is stupid. Period.

He has the audacity to suggest these issues divide the forum then he heaps on crap every chance he gets. Like that is going to close the divide.

So no, I do not see the need to agree with or sanction his sanctimonius thoughts and chest thumping.

Hostile,

I didn't level accusations at anybody.....I just said I can understand it due to the fact that it WAS leveled at me. Don't you see the irony in that? I am also not saying that it was right. If I were to level these accusations at ANYBODY, I could have done it LONG ago.

I didn't ask you to agree with or sanction his "sanctimonious thoughts".

If you were being labeled as a racist, and then those same people came out and said racist things and were put on the spot due to it, wouldn't you say that was ironic?

That's all that I was saying.

Hostile · 07-28-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaTunaNostra

There are also many of us who support Quincy who don't think he 's the next best thing", but see both enough talent in him, and progress last year to believe with another year under his belt he will be a successful QB.

We also have some ABCers whose support for Drew revolves around the fact he is not Quincy, and are doing their best to turn the Carter-Hutchinson nonsense into Carter-Henson nonsense. Unfortunately, the immediate proclaiming of Henson as the "franchise", without even waiting to see him throw one pass, agitated, not ameliorated the 'controversy".

[View Full Quote]

The bottom line is anyone who professes to want the wars to end shouldn't be tossing out comments like that.

All his comments accomplished is that if/when Q fails the intensity of this crap is going to go up. Good strategy. I would think that the more reasonable of Carter's supporters would want to separate themselves from that rather than sanction it.

That's what I do when the extreme ABC crap comes out. You've never once seen me defend anythign but people's opinions and right to express them. I certainly have not posted a sanction of anything questioning Q's intelligance, tongue, or the ever popular "Q sux" posts. Not once, not ever.

Jimz31 · 07-28-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hostile

The bottom line is anyone who professes to want the wars to end shouldn't be tossing out comments like that.

All his comments accomplished is that if/when Q fails the intensity of this crap is going to go up. Good strategy. I would think that the more reasonable of Carter's supporters would want to separate themselves from that rather than sanction it.

That's what I do when the extreme ABC crap comes out. You've never once seen me defend anythign but people's opinions and right to express them. I certainly have not posted a sanction of anything questioning Q's intelligance, tongue, or the ever popular "Q sux" posts. Not once, not ever.

I agree.....

This is the reason why I have been staying out of the Q issues for the last couple of months. It's pretty much a moot point anyway.....no matter which way you feel.

Hostile · 07-28-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimz31

Hostile,

I didn't level accusations at anybody.....I just said I can understand it due to the fact that it WAS leveled at me. Don't you see the irony in that? I am also not saying that it was right. If I were to level these accusations at ANYBODY, I could have done it LONG ago.

I didn't ask you to agree with or sanction his "sanctimonious thoughts".

If you were being labeled as a racist, and then those same people came out and said racist things and were put on the spot due to it, wouldn't you say that was ironic?

That's all that I was saying.

The next time there is a post about Q's mental capabilities, tongue, etc. do you think I will be party to it? That I will agree with it? That I will in any way want my name associated with it?

I will never defend that. I will never understand that.

I can't say it any differently. I'm sorry.

I tend to respect people's opinions and though I think I have been in a lot of debates on this subject with some people who weren't the brightest stars in the sky I have not labeled everyone who disagreed with me on the issue as "idiots" or ignorant.

Yet I am supposed to understand why it is okay for someone who has been accused of something to label others as "rednecks" or ignorant?

I don't think so. I would distance myself from that kind of thinking as far away as I could rather than sanction it. But that's just me.

I'd defend a truly outrageous attack on Q just to see how some react, but I refuse to place myself in the extremist camp. I will not sanction their opinions.

I don't mind people having opinions and sharing them. I think some who supported Hutch probably prefer pocket passers to mobile QBs. That makes them "ignorant?" Forgive me, I don't see it.

Jimz31 · 07-28-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hostile

The next time there is a post about Q's mental capabilities, tongue, etc. do you think I will be party to it? That I will agree with it? That I will in any way want my name associated with it?

I will never defend that. I will never understand that.

I can't say it any differently. I'm sorry.

I tend to respect people's opinions and though I think I have been in a lot of debates on this subject with some people who weren't the brightest stars in the sky I have not labeled everyone who disagreed with me on the issue as "idiots" or ignorant.

Yet I am supposed to understand why it is okay for someone who has been accused of something to label others as "rednecks" or ignorant?

I don't think so. I would distance myself from that kind of thinking as far away as I could rather than sanction it. But that's just me.

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Hos, you are missing the point.

Hostile · 07-28-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimz31

I agree.....

This is the reason why I have been staying out of the Q issues for the last couple of months. It's pretty much a moot point anyway.....no matter which way you feel.

If you agree that his comments are just going to stir up more trouble then why defend why he said it?

If Q gets waived (for whatever reason) and someone posts this...

"How does that shoe leather taste Q fans? I guess you don't know anything about football after all."

...should I defend that poster? Should I say based on accusations thrown at me in the past that I understand why he/she said that?

I won't, so moot point as well. I just find that kind of thing offensive and coutner productive. Especially if you constantly ask for calm rational thought on a touchy subject.

Hostile · 07-28-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimz31

Hos, you are missing the point.

I don't think so Jim. If I am then I am glad I am. I don't want to understand the need to call people ignorant and lacking in football knowledge.

crazylegs · 07-28-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rude

So you believe Parcells would pick Romo, a person that has never thrown a pass in a NFL game over last years starter????

Keep dreaming

Just because QC started doesn't mean that he wasn't a huge mistake.

The guy has Burger King written all over him.

Jimz31 · 07-28-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hostile

If you agree that his comments are just going to stir up more trouble then why defend why he said it?

If Q gets waived (for whatever reason) and someone posts this...

"How does that shoe leather taste Q fans? I guess you don't knwo anythign about football after all."

...should I defend that poster? Should I say based on accusations thrown at me in the past that I understand why he/she said that?

I won't, so moot point as well. I just find that kind of thing offensive and coutner productive. Especially if you constantly ask for calm rational thought on a touchy subject.

I told you that I can understand it......did I defend it? No, but I said that I can see what he was getting at. I think that you can too. Don't tell me that when you realized that when Hutch was going to be released that you didn't think there would be people on this board saying "I told you so". Now, did I do that? No I didn't. If QC is cut or waived, do I think there will be people on the other side saying the same thing? OF COURSE I DO. I CAN SEE WHAT THEY ARE GETTING AT. Do I have to agree with it? No. BUT I CAN SEE WHAT THEY ARE GETTING AT. And I think that you do to.

Maikeru-sama · 07-28-2004

I thought this was an interesting blurb by JJT. Here, he is answering a question posed to him by a fan:

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Q. How long was Chad Hutchinson actually employed by the Cowboys and, by the time all payments are made, how much money did the Cowboys pay him? Do you think Chad has any legitimate gripe with the way he's been handled by the Cowboys?

John Fraser, Delmar, N.Y.

TAYLOR: Hutchinson spent two full seasons with the Cowboys and earned about $4 million, including a $3.1 million signing bonus. He didn't really earn the paycheck. It wasn't all of his fault, because the Cowboys put him on the field way too early. Still, he started nine games in 2002 and showed a lot of reasons why he won't succeed in the NFL. He has no pocket presence and doesn't have the elusiveness to avoid the rush once the pocket breaks down. Given a chance to compete for the starting job last year, he wilted.

I didnt realize Hutch had made that much money.

Here is the link to the article: LINK

- Mike G.

LaTunaNostra · 07-28-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hostile

The bottom line is anyone who professes to want the wars to end shouldn't be tossing out comments like that.

All his comments accomplished is that if/when Q fails the intensity of this crap is going to go up. Good strategy. I would think that the more reasonable of Carter's supporters would want to separate themselves from that rather than sanction it.

That's what I do when the extreme ABC crap comes out. You've never once seen me defend anythign but people's opinions and right to express them. I certainly have not posted a sanction of anything questioning Q's intelligance, tongue, or the ever popular "Q sux" posts. Not once, not ever.

No, but it's not enough not to scanction it, imo, it should be called out. Immediately.

As a board user here, I would like to see a more equitable demonstration of non-sanctioning by both you and Jterrel. You two are the sole partisan mods. BrainPaint, Dale and Duane may have a "dog in the race", but they don't express it if they do. From five years of sports board use, I came to believe the best moderation is that which holds itself above the fray, but you two have great takes, if sometimes partisan, and I think everyone enjoys your views enormously, as I do. It would be a loss if you two put a lid on it.

However, you both have the tendency to let go uncalled for remarks by the "opposing" camp, and I strongly feel you allow posters to get away with remarks from "your" side that you have much less patience from "the other side." Inane flame threads started by either side need to be sent to smack room asap. It isn't enough to refrain from sanctioning the remarks which seem generated from pure hate and ignorance - what is needed is to call that poster on it immediately. It shouldn't have to come from "the other side", it should come down to what it appropriate for a forum that refuses to champion trash.

I use this board because it is moderated and tasteful. I am just another poster, with no special privs, and obviously from my post count, I love the place. But there have been a few times recently I have told myself it is time to move to another board, because the level of discourse had begun to sink. I'm not a priss, or prude, and I think I have a sense of humour, but there is a bottom line that as a poster I won't cross, and that is wallowing in the kind of net environment I'd never enter in the real world. There are other places to go.

I realize this is what the divisions were about on the old board. But some of us came here just because mean-spirited garbage was not our cup of tea. If this sounds "superior", so be it. I do feel superior to that trash, and I am asking before the preseason starts that both you and Jterrel do a more consistent job of policing it when it comes from your "own side".

Thanks.

**ABQCOWBOY** · 07-28-2004

JT, I have known you a long time. Longer even then Hos. I am not the great peace maker here but at the risk of stepping out of bounds, I say lets just forget this whole damn thing. It is what it is. We all have our own views. I have argued countless times on this, sometimes with you JT, and it has resolved nothing. Carter is going to go to camp as the number one guy with every advantage to solidify his position. If he does it, it's done. He's our starting QB, probably, for some time to come. If he doesn't, no excuses. He's had his chance. The wheels are in motion and the best thing we can all do is sit back and see how it plays out. This is madness. We are reaching "Ranch Like" proportions here. We can do better the this.

crazylegs · 07-28-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by jterrell

BTW, does Hutch's release mean all the poor QC backers were wrong about his value? OR is it that the QC haters were once again proven ignorant of football related concepts.

Some guys just never get tired of digging shoe from their mouths I guess.

Um... that should be reworded as "OR is it that the QC lovers are once again proven ignorant of football related concepts. "

The only thing QC had going for him was a lack of an OL.

Abit he can't scramble, but he did do good for a white guy!

Once the OL improves where will his attributes be?

You got it, QC the super sizer!

Jimz31 · 07-28-2004

Now this gets moved to the smack-talk forum? It seems to me that it would take more than just a person saying something that got people up in an uproar.....you would think that it should have been alot of people "talking smack" back and forth.

Geez, there was a misunderstanding that was trying to be rectified.....and it gets moved?