Ginn Jr. dropping?

[tyke1doe]

Originally Posted by speedkilz88

I agree with that philosophy, except I disagree that player fits that philosophy. How many 5-11 178 speedy wrs in the modern era have been HOFs?

Marvin Harrison is 5-11 185 lbs, and he's destined for the HoF.

But why are we making this a HoF argument?

Heck, if he's below HoF standards that still aint bad.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by joseephuss

Me too. Maybe either Hurd or Austin will develop into a good receiver. I am not sold on Ginn. Sure Dallas needs to develop a future receiver, but they have other immediate needs in the 1st round instead of taking a project.

Myself I'm not convinced that both TO and Glenn will be back given the roster bonus we must pay. My gut feeling is TO will be back and Glenn will not. I would also add even if both return they are both in their 30's and I think you cover your bases on a strong WR pool this season instead of waiting until one or both of our WR are gone. As for Hurd and Austin I hope they progress as well but I think it would be a mistake to pass up a WR in this draft.

[tyke1doe]

Originally Posted by StanleySpadowski

Ginn Jr. has bust written all over him.

First, his speed is greatly exagerated. He's fast but he's a 10.5 hundred guy, not exactly world class speed.

You know the difference between football speed and track speed don't you?

[McCordsville Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

Myself I'm not convinced that both TO and Glenn will be back given the roster bonus we must pay. My gut feeling is TO will be back and Glenn will not. I would also add even if both return they are both in their 30's and I think you cover your bases on a strong WR pool this season instead of waiting until one or both of our WR are gone. As for Hurd and Austin I hope they progress as well but I think it would be a mistake to pass up a WR in this draft.

Agreed!

I hope they progress too, but to have your 2 starting receivers be 34 and your #3 going on 29, WHY wouldn't you draft receiver in this draft??

You dont bank on your second string guy being a second year UFA at that position. Crayton is very solid and dependable in his niche. If T.O pulls a hammy or Terry stubs a toe, then what? Insert Hurd and hope all is well?

I hope someone falls to 22 thats not supposed to and we draft them. If its Ginn or Jarret, Great! If its Moss or Nelson, go for it! I just hope its a value pick and not a curve ball that no one saw coming (like Greg Olson).

[tyke1doe]

Originally Posted by McCordsville Cowboy

I just hope its a value pick and not a curve ball that no one saw coming (like Greg Olson).

Bill "Never met a TE I didn't like" Parcells is gone. So we don't have to worry about that happening.

[cobra]

Ginn has excellent football speed.

He will be the #2 WR taken. And a very, very large part of that draft grade has to do with this phenomenal punt/kick return ability.

Yes he isn't as polished as some of the other top WRs. Doesn't have hands of glue. Doesn't run the best routes. But he isn't horrible, either. What he provides is game-changing ability. And here, guys like Devin Hester and Reggie Bush are going to push Ginn up the board. Also, the recent successes of fast WRs like Steve Smith and Santana Moss. All of these factors are going to push Ginn above the other more traditional WRs who have better traditional WR skills.

Is he a boom/bust guy? Of course. But you don't draft Ginn because you need a #1 WR. He isn't one. If you need a #1 WR, you look at Meachum, Jarrett or Bowe. You draft Ginn if you could use a #2 or #3 WR who would be a game-changing return man and allow you to do some versatile things in 3 WR formations. That kind of player can be EXTREMELY valuable and worth a very high draft pick.

[speedkilz88]

Originally Posted by tyke1doe

Marvin Harrison is 5-11 185 lbs, and he's destined for the HoF.

But why are we making this a HoF argument?

Heck, if he's below HoF standards that still aint bad.

Marvin's 6-0 with a sleight build but they are not the same type of player. Marvin is a football savy player who runs the most precise routes in the league. He is the exception to sleight built players in that he hasn't gotten banged up. But fine you found one sleightly built player who is a HOF. Not very good odds though is it.

Ginn is strictly a raw speed ball player with a sleight build.

[Maikeru-sama]

Originally Posted by cobra

Ginn has excellent football speed.

He will be the #2 WR taken. And a very, very large part of that draft grade has to do with this phenomenal punt/kick return ability.

Yes he isn't as polished as some of the other top WRs. Doesn't have hands of glue. Doesn't run the best routes. But he isn't horrible, either. What he provides is game-changing ability. And here, guys like Devin Hester and Reggie Bush are going to push Ginn up the board. Also, the recent successes of fast WRs like Steve Smith and Santana Moss. All of these factors are going to push Ginn above the other more traditional WRs who have better traditional WR skills.

[View Full Quote]Is he a boom/bust guy? Of course. But you don't draft Ginn because you need a #1 WR. He isn't one. If you need a #1 WR, you look at Meachum, Jarrett or Bowe. You draft Ginn if you could use a #2 or #3 WR who would be a game-changing return man and allow you to do some versatile things in 3 WR formations. That kind of player can be EXTREMELY valuable and worth a very high draft pick.

Excellent points.

I think Ginn will be fine, he is still learning the position even though he has had 2 years of College as I think he was a QB in Highschool.

Everyone in the draft can be a bust, Ginn included.

[speedkilz88]

Originally Posted by cobra

Ginn has excellent football speed.

He will be the #2 WR taken. And a very, very large part of that draft grade has to do with this phenomenal punt/kick return ability.

Yes he isn't as polished as some of the other top WRs. Doesn't have hands of glue. Doesn't run the best routes. But he isn't horrible, either. What he provides is game-changing ability. And here, guys like Devin Hester and Reggie Bush are going to push Ginn up the board. Also, the recent successes of fast WRs like Steve Smith and Santana Moss. All of these factors are going to push Ginn above the other more traditional WRs who have better traditional WR skills.

[View Full Quote]Is he a boom/bust guy? Of course. But you don't draft Ginn because you need a #1 WR. He isn't one. If you need a #1 WR, you look at Meachum, Jarrett or Bowe. You draft Ginn if you could use a #2 or #3 WR who would be a game-changing return man and allow you to do some versatile things in 3 WR formations. That kind of player can be EXTREMELY valuable and worth a very high draft pick.

When a team is picking a wr in the first round they are looking for #1 WRs, not #2 or #3s, that is exactly why they will take guys like Meachem and Bowe over him. Especially when Meachem can run fast too.

[cobra]

Originally Posted by speedkilz88

When a team is picking a wr in the first round they are looking for #1 WRs, not #2 or #3s

First off, it's complete nonsense on stilts to suggest that you don't look at #2 WR in the first round. Every team in this league plays with 2 WRs, so its a starting position.

But putting that aside, you completely missed my point. As I said, if a team is looking for a #1 WR, then they will take someone else.

But many teams are looking for BPA or looking for game changers. That is what Ginn is.

I think he will probably go in the 11-20 range. If you look at those teams, not all of them are looking for a #1 WR. They will be interested in a game changer who can also be a #2 or #3. Those teams are:

10. Falcons (Lelie, Jenkins, Roddy White)
11. 49ers (Battle, ____ )
12. Bills (Evans, Price)
13. Rams (Holt, Bruce, Curtis)
14. Panthers (Smith, Keyshawn, Carter, Colbert)
15. Steelers (Ward, Holmes, Washington)
16. Packers (Driver, Jennings)
17. Jaguars (Williams, Wiliford, Jones)
18. Bengals (Johnson, TJ, Henry)
19. Titans (Bennett, Brandon Jones)
20. Giants (Burress, Carter, Moss)


I am not saying all of those teams are looking for WR. In fact, most of them aren't I would guess. But my point is this: the teams that are looking at WR don't all need a #1 WR. They need a compliment player. And they would look at what else that compliment player might be able to do.

I could see the 49ers looking at the #1 WR guys (Meachum, Bowe, Jarrett), but I think they are going to look defense. I could also see Tennessee looking for a #1 guy is Bennett leaves. If Bennett stays, they will still need a #2 to compliment him, so they might look at Ginn.

The Rams might look WR, but they don't need a #1 guy. They could certainly use a versatile game-changer like Ginn who would be the #3 guy behind Bruce and Holt (and develop to be Bruce's replacement next season).

Ginn would be a great fit for Jax. They have big WRs, but they could use a little burner to stretch the field. He would also be a valuable special teamer. So I really see him going there if he makes it to Jax.

My point is this: Ginn brings a unique player to the table. He can be your #2 or #3 WR but also be a game-changer on special teams. Teams with not a lot of holes will be interested in him because of his effect on the games. But not every team that is interested in Ginn will be looking for a #1 WR.

[McCordsville Cowboy]

Originally Posted by mickgreen58

Excellent points.

I think Ginn will be fine, he is still learning the position even though he has had 2 years of College as I think he was a QB in Highschool.

Everyone in the draft can be a bust, Ginn included.

He played QB, CB, FS, RB and WR in High school

[InmanRoshi]

When a team is picking a wr in the first round they are looking for #1 WRs, not #2 or #3s

"The Genius" drafted a #2 WR with the 12th pick in the draft in 1991.

[ConcordCowboy]

Ginn is a game breaker/changer playmaker and they don't come around all the time.

Work on his WR skills and he could be WOW.

Will he be? Who knows.

Me I'll take a playmaker like Ginn any day.

I mean think about it...we took Carpenter in the first and people were OK with that...Most anyway. But you'd pass up a player like Ginn?

Not me.

[ConcordCowboy]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

"The Genius" drafted a #2 WR with the 12th pick in the draft in 1991.

....

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by ConcordCowboy

Ginn is a game breaker/changer playmaker and they don't come around all the time.

Work on his WR skills and he could be WOW.

Will he be? Who knows.

Me I'll take a playmaker like Ginn any day.

I mean think about it...we took Carpenter in the first and people were OK with that...Most anyway. But you'd pass up a player like Ginn?

Not me.

I think Ginn is very talented but I think there are some guys in this draft who are better pure WR than Ginn. Myself I tend to like bigger WR with speed over smaller guys, just my own preference.