Front 7 alarmingly old - Dallas Cowboys Forum

Eskimo · 09-18-2004

Consider last week's starting lineup:

Greg Ellis 29
Chad Eaton 32
LaRoi Glover 30
Marcellus Wiley 29
Al Singleton 29
Dat Nguyen 29
Dex Coakley 31

Avg age: 30

Also consider that Ogbogu is 29.

The youthful backups are relatively untalented or without serious pedigree:

Coleman 25
B James 23
C Cooper 26
Leo Carson 27

This is a defense that is probably rapidly on the decline. Perhaps not as rapidly as was on evidence last week, but to expect them to be a top-10 defense this year is simply unrealistic. We will be no better than middle of the pack which is pretty much where we were in 2002 (ranked 18th).

A serious infusion of talent and youth is required. Thankfully, we should have considerable cap space next year so long as VT doesn't earn all his incentives (it looks like EG won't earn his) with LTBE incentives rolling over this year's ununsed cap space. We will also probably have two high picks next year (the Bills don't look like world beaters either) to address this issue.

Hollywood Henderson · 09-18-2004

Actually, if I may use the "other side of the coin"
They all should be still in their primes...

We just need MUCH better coaching on that side of the ball...It would be nice to see our players used correctly and to their strengths...Instead of whimpy ball...

dargonking999 · 09-18-2004

yea those ages look old. But really i think as this season goes on like last year these guys will look like they were still in their mid 20's. these guys are beasts. Dont forget we got age on the offensive side to, but we still racked up 400 yards of offense

Eskimo · 09-18-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargonking999

yea those ages look old. But really i think as this season goes on like last year these guys will look like they were still in their mid 20's. these guys are beasts. Dont forget we got age on the offensive side to, but we still racked up 400 yards of offense

OL just seem to have longer life spans. Offensive players with the exception of QBs also just seem to play longer and more effectively on the defensive side of the ball.

Eskimo · 09-18-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood Henderson

Actually, if I may use the "other side of the coin"
They all should be still in their primes...

We just need MUCH better coaching on that side of the ball...It would be nice to see our players used correctly and to their strengths...Instead of whimpy ball...

Which of those players do you believe are being held back by our scheme. We can't generate a pass rush in even the most obvious of passing downs.

Granted, I'm sure if we played more aggressively we would probably get more sacks, but none of the guys on the front 7 are true impact players anymore (Glover used to be). If we want to enter the upper echelon, we need at least two difference makers added to the mix.

Reflecting upon this past Sunday reminded me a bit of the 1991 Cowboys vs. Lions playoff game. We schemed to prevent Sanders from beating us and his supporting cast trounced us.

By the next season, we added Haley, K Smith and Hennings. But we also got better internally from improved play from Maryland, Lett and Tolbert who were all upcoming youngsters at that point in time. This was the key that allowed us to play with and defeat the 49ers in the championship game. The same thing will have to happen this offseason for us to take the next step as a team.

Jimz31 · 09-18-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eskimo

Which of those players do you believe are being held back by our scheme. We can't generate a pass rush in even the most obvious of passing downs.

Granted, I'm sure if we played more aggressively we would probably get more sacks, but none of the guys on the front 7 are true impact players anymore (Glover used to be). If we want to enter the upper echelon, we need at least two difference makers added to the mix.

Reflecting upon this past Sunday reminded me a bit of the 1991 Cowboys vs. Lions playoff game. We schemed to prevent Sanders from beating us and his supporting cast trounced us.

[View Full Quote]

Who is being held back? IMO, Ogbogu is. It seems that he is about the only one that can get any PRESSURE in the backfield (when he is in there).

blindzebra · 09-18-2004

Our rotations in the front 7 average 27.8 years of age.

The players that made the pro bowl last year averaged 28.5.

Waffle · 09-18-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eskimo

Consider last week's starting lineup:

Greg Ellis 29
Chad Eaton 32
LaRoi Glover 30
Marcellus Wiley 29
Al Singleton 29
Dat Nguyen 29
Dex Coakley 31

Avg age: 30

Also consider that Ogbogu is 29.

The youthful backups are relatively untalented or without serious pedigree:

Coleman 25
B James 23
C Cooper 26
Leo Carson 27

Better order some Geritol® for the boys...

**MichaelWinicki** · 09-18-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood Henderson

Actually, if I may use the "other side of the coin"
They all should be still in their primes...

We just need MUCH better coaching on that side of the ball...It would be nice to see our players used correctly and to their strengths...Instead of whimpy ball...

Yeah, I'm sure Bill Parcells is such an idiot that he allows ****ty coaching to pervade the defensive side of the ball.

AdamJT13 · 09-18-2004

Why is an average age of 30 is "alarmingly old"? (Forget for a moment that Eaton was starting in place of Carson, which raised the average by one year.)

Anyone want to guess the average age of New England's starting front seven in last year's Super Bowl? Try 31 years, 4 months. Five of them were at least 30, and four of them were at least as old as our oldest starter (32). Two of them were at least 35.

These aren't running backs we're talking about, you know.

marsbennett · 09-18-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood Henderson

Actually, if I may use the "other side of the coin"
They all should be still in their primes...

We just need MUCH better coaching on that side of the ball...It would be nice to see our players used correctly and to their strengths...Instead of whimpy ball...

Maybe, but if they don't improve quickly they will be on their way out the door in a major retooling effort that will take at least 2 seasons.

Chuck 54 · 09-18-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eskimo

Consider last week's starting lineup:

Greg Ellis 29
Chad Eaton 32
LaRoi Glover 30
Marcellus Wiley 29
Al Singleton 29
Dat Nguyen 29
Dex Coakley 31

Avg age: 30

Also consider that Ogbogu is 29.

The youthful backups are relatively untalented or without serious pedigree:

Coleman 25
B James 23
C Cooper 26
Leo Carson 27

This is a defense that is probably rapidly on the decline. Perhaps not as rapidly as was on evidence last week, but to expect them to be a top-10 defense this year is simply unrealistic. We will be no better than middle of the pack which is pretty much where we were in 2002 (ranked 18th).

[View Full Quote]

I think the point is that we've been looking for a DE for over a decade, and while everyone likes Ellis, we still have never landed a decent pass rushing DE. In addition we have only 1 decent DT, and he's a motor guy, not a large stud run stuffer.

We don't have much talent on the DL, and the scary part is that we will need to replace them all without a few years.

jterrell · 09-18-2004

The fronmt 7 isnt an issue. We have a very good mix of age and youth there. We need 1 large run stuffer but thats all we truly lack.

Dont forget Kalen Thornton is in the mix as is Cooper, Coleman and Carson. We don't have any top 10 picks there under 29 but we probably will this time next year.

Glover and Ellis are far from declining. Eaton is a limited time guy who will be part of a rotation. These guys arent 40 like Vinny. Ellis is 11 years younger for goodness sakes. Terrence Newman is is what 26 or 27? These guys can all play for 3 o 4 more years easily with the exception of Eaton.

junk · 09-18-2004

DL early next year. Maybe make a run at Abraham. I agree, the front seven is getting old.

ravidubey · 09-18-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamJT13

Why is an average age of 30 is "alarmingly old"? (Forget for a moment that Eaton was starting in place of Carson, which raised the average by one year.)

Anyone want to guess the average age of New England's starting front seven in last year's Super Bowl? Try 31 years, 4 months. Five of them were at least 30, and four of them were at least as old as our oldest starter (32). Two of them were at least 35.

These aren't running backs we're talking about, you know.

Our guys rely on speed, though, so it must be a concern. There are times when I want to see the entire front seven blown up and rebuilt, maybe keeping Glover at DE to preserve his career a bit. I have never liked the seven-little-men scheme up front-- it's too often weak against runs up the gut and never, ever generates pressure.

It is hard to remember the last sack from a DL in our base defense made against a good team at a clutch time in the game. Throw stats out the window, it's moments like that which make serious playoff teams.