Are The Cowboys Super Bowl Contenders?

[superpunk]

Originally Posted by firehawk350

Thanks for bringing up the outsiders again (which I will reiterate is slanted towards high-scoring teams),

Thank you for reiterating.

However, all the reiteration in the world won't make you any less wrong.

Cooley < Witten. Every single year they've been in the league, Witten grades out better. Better hands, he's more of a deep threat, he flat out gets it done. He's not a bubble screen YAC H-back. He's a far more valuable asset.

[firehawk350]

Originally Posted by peplaw06

See this is where you're wrong. Nobody schemes to take a 3rd option completely out of a game... just as no one schemes to take a 5th option out. They scheme to take out the main option, and maybe a second. Then they dare you to beat them with your 3rd-5th options.

I still don't see how it's "harder" to gain yards or TDs as a 3rd option as opposed to a 5th.

Okay, for a little further clarification since I wasn't clear enough to begin with. Nobody schemes to take a 3rd option out completely, but they account more for the third option then as they do the 5th. So therefore, it would be harder to gain yards because you should expect MORE attention (not all of the attention, but more) if you are the 3rd then if you are the 5th.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by firehawk350

But there's no way you like Cooley as much as Witten, so every opinion is biased.

Nice try, but I already qualified it by saying even if I weren't a Cowboys fan or he wasn't a Cowboy. If he were a Redskins player and Cooley a Cowboy I wouldn't change my opinion.

If I had Witten and Cooley on the same team, I honestly don't know what I'd do. I mean, your talking about a team in which all I know is those two players. Most likely, I'd switch to a two TE set because they are BOTH playmakers, but if I HAD to choose, I'd choose Cooley.

I believe you.

As far as outside of Redskins' nation, who knows. Everyone has an opinion on the Cowboys so depending on that will be depending on their choice. I don't believe that not based on statistics, we could find a completely unbiased person to evaluate the two who would still know enough of what they were talking about.

And I disagree. I believe most sources would tell you what you obviously don't want to hear.

I don't want to give the impression that I hate Witten, because I think he's a good player.

No, that isn't the impression I got. Mine was this...

I just think he hasn't been what hype is made him out to be.

What hype is that? The hype here? Outside of Cowboys nation who hypes him up? Oh right, NFL types.

That isn't hype son. It's the school bell ringing. Join the class.

[stasheroo]

Originally Posted by firehawk350

What I'm taking into account is what the player did, not what everyone did around him. "Witten had more yards", that's your point, isn't it? But we're talking 50 yards here. Not some massive advantage. That's tiny. But Cooley's 5 TDs IS a massive advantage. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to get.

Fine.

Marion Barber >>>> Portis & Betts

Happy?

[firehawk350]

Originally Posted by superpunk

Thank you for reiterating.

However, all the reiteration in the world won't make you any less wrong.

Cooley < Witten. Every single year they've been in the league, Witten grades out better. Better hands, he's more of a deep threat, he flat out gets it done. He's not a bubble screen YAC H-back. He's a far more valuable asset.

Wow, argument over! Thanks for that. Witten grades out better on some DVOA ranking that is only used by that particular site. No major analyst says, well I like player X, but his DVOA is just too low to be a factor. Or when has a coach said, we were going to pick up player X, but player Y's DVOA is just hard to pass up? The web is full of people who pretend to have an inside slant but don't. Somebody just thought of a system they thought was fair. Doesn't make it the end-all, be-all of systems.
Better hands, maybe, I've seen Cooley make some pretty hard catches. More of a deep threat? That's why Cooley has a 66 yard longest catch where as Witten's is 44. Hm... Furthermore, Cooley has more 20 yard catches AND 40 yard catches.
He flat out gets it done huh? Well except the TD part... And if you took out Cooley from the Redskins, would that have a more profound effect then if you took out Witten?

[REDVOLUTION]

Originally Posted by firehawk350

My point still stands then. It's a retarded analogy. We're assuming the 1200 yard back had to do everything himself (he being Witten), and the 1000 yard back only had to punch it in. The 1000 yard back had to do it all, he had to run down the field and then punch it in. Which is what Cooley did.

The argument here seems to be, and let me know if I got something wrong, Witten is a threat to run it down but just not quite the redzone target and Cooley is a redzone target but just doesn't have it in the open field? Is that what your arguing?

So whats the answer? How many houses were built?

[firehawk350]

Originally Posted by stasheroo

Fine.

Marion Barber >>>> Portis & Betts

Happy?

Again, you are oversimplifying things. Yes, if TDs are the only measure, Barber wins. Oh wait, nevermind. barber wins against an injured portis. But again, I point to the difference in yards vs. the difference in TDs.

[Bob Sacamano]

IMO, there isn't much seperation between Witten and Cooley

I'd say it's about even, Cooley is better at getting in the endzone, and Witten is the more surer receiver, both are average blockers

[Bob Sacamano]

Originally Posted by firehawk350

And if you took out Cooley from the Redskins, would that have a more profound effect then if you took out Witten?

hey, it's not our fault that outside of Moss, your receivers suck

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by firehawk350

Again, you are oversimplifying things. Yes, if TDs are the only measure, Barber wins. Oh wait, nevermind. barber wins against an injured portis. But again, I point to the difference in yards vs. the difference in TDs.

Does that hurt?

[superpunk]

Originally Posted by firehawk350

Wow, argument over! Thanks for that. Witten grades out better on some DVOA ranking that is only used by that particular site. No major analyst says, well I like player X, but his DVOA is just too low to be a factor. Or when has a coach said, we were going to pick up player X, but player Y's DVOA is just hard to pass up? The web is full of people who pretend to have an inside slant but don't. Somebody just thought of a system they thought was fair. Doesn't make it the end-all, be-all of systems.

It's the best one I've found. If you've found a better, please produce it. Otherwise, cease with the attempts to degrade the evaluation system when you don't even possess the mental faculty to understand it. No matter how much you reiterate your foolishness.

Better hands, maybe, I've seen Cooley make some pretty hard catches.

Not maybe. Definitely. Witten's catch percentage is better than Cooley's every year.

More of a deep threat? That's why Cooley has a 66 yard longest catch where as Witten's is 44. Hm... Furthermore, Cooley has more 20 yard catches AND 40 yard catches.

Taking a bubble screen 20 ayrds does not qualify you as a deep threat. Cooley had 17 receptions behind the LOS last year and 21 the year before that. Witten has had 9 total the past two years.

Who is catching passes downfield in traffic more often?

Over the past 3 years, Witten has 31 catches of 20 ayrds or more. Cooley has 21. Fall back.

[firehawk350]

Originally Posted by Hostile

Nice try, but I already qualified it by saying even if I weren't a Cowboys fan or he wasn't a Cowboy. If he were a Redskins player and Cooley a Cowboy I wouldn't change my opinion.

Oh okay, so if you could be somebody else, you would say Witten. But you can't BE anyone else, you'll always slant to the blue and silver side of things. If I weren't a Skins fan or Cooley wasn't a skin, I wouldn't change my opinion either. See how easy that was?

Originally Posted by Hostile

I believe you.

I meant I wouldn't know what to do because they are both great weapons and I have no idea what the rest of the team looked like. You were a bit vague.

Originally Posted by Hostile

And I disagree. I believe most sources would tell you what you obviously don't want to hear.

You believe... I believe a lot of things, but my beliefs aren't revelant to this discussion. Just like your personal beliefs aren't. That's why we use statistics.

Originally Posted by Hostile

No, that isn't the impression I got. Mine was this...

Wow, your so close to being funny. SO CLOSE! Just keep reaching for the stars...

Originally Posted by Hostile

What hype is that? The hype here? Outside of Cowboys nation who hypes him up? Oh right, NFL types.

That isn't hype son. It's the school bell ringing. Join the class.

Haha, it isn't hype because Hos says it's not, huh? Wow, glad we cleared that one up. So, while we're at it, let me email the league office with your responses on the following?
Mike Vick all hype? How about Calvin Johnson? Who's your underachievers of the draft? I mean, after all, your opinion on these subjects end ALL debates.

[Bob Sacamano]

punk, I don't feel like wading, so could you please post the DVOA ranking again?

thanks

[firehawk350]

Originally Posted by Bob Sacamano

hey, it's not our fault that outside of Moss, your receivers suck

It isn't cooley's either...

[Bob Sacamano]

Originally Posted by firehawk350

It isn't cooley's either...

ok, but you're the one saying if you take Cooley away, it would hurt more than it would the Cowboys if we were to take Witten away