We could have done SO much better! - Page 2 - Dallas Cowboys Forum

Hostile · 05-10-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by junk

I'm probably rambling.

I don't consider Ball much of a risk since he was a 7th rounder. I actually like his upside in the 7th. Decent size, speed and multiple years of starting experience in a major conference.

The pick that concerns me the most is Stanback.

I can understand that, he is the one pick coming in with an existing injury and he was a high day 2 pick.

I'm not going to sweat any of the picks. I think each of them has a real chance to contribute.

**BrAinPaiNt** · 05-11-2007

I don't know if the cowboys took Siler off of their draft board but it has been reported that MANY teams, I think the cowboys as well, did not like Siler's attitude vs his ability.

Word I heard is he is an OK player who thinks he is a HOF player and nobody can tell him different and they felt he would be difficult to coach because of it.

That seems to be the reason he fell as far as he did.

So I am glad we passed on him, We already had that in Bryant and D. Ross.

InmanRoshi · 05-11-2007

Everyone always wants to take the small school workout warriors with late round picks, but I've often found that the best Day 2 steals in the draft are 4 year starters from major conferences who fall because they're not great workout guys. Maybe the best recent example is the Chargers getting Shane Olivea in the 7th round. Jay Ratliff is a great example for us. So while everyone is drooling over Courtney Brown based off workout numbers, I kind of have my eye on Alan Ball.

junk · 05-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

Everyone always wants to take the small school workout warriors with late round picks, but I've often found that the best Day 2 steals in the draft are 4 year starters from major conferences who fall because they're not great workout guys. Maybe the best recent example is the Chargers getting Shane Olivea in the 7th round. Jay Ratliff is a great example for us. So while everyone is drooling over Courtney Brown based off workout numbers, I kind of have my eye on Alan Ball.

Hey, we agree on something. (marks calendar)

Cogan · 05-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by sago1

Understand from listening to the ticket on draft day that the Cowboys had removed Wright from their draft board cause of rape allegation against him and presence of over 135 rape date pills located in his quad. The police did find there was evidence the date rape drug was present in her body but could not charge Wright because the girl refused to press charges. FYI: I didn't check out anything further but didn't come across the girl's name so presumed she was unwilling to go public.

Despite the fact that the police could not prosecute Wright, the university found him guilty of violating their rules/standards and he was forced to leave.

Not much media attention was focused on Cleveland's drafting him, but you better believe it would have been all over the papers if the Dallas Cowboys had drafted him. No one cares what Cleveland or other teams do, unless it gets out of hand like Cincy. But they all seem to care when the Cowboys do it.

Phil Savage & Romeo Crennel are as concerned about a player's character as any execs in the NFL. However, Savage has not earned a reputation as one of the best talent evaluators by not doing his homework. He investigated Wright extensively before the draft before deciding to put Wright on his board. As Savage put it, "First of all, Wright was not prosecuted for any offense, and we are all supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. Secondly, before & after the controversy, Wright was an exemplary honor student. Thirdly, he left USC for UNLV. If a student is prone to getting into trouble, he couldn't pick a better place than Vegas. He stayed out of trouble, and all of his coaches went to bat for him during our interviews."

We all makes mistakes. Wright payed for his by losing the chance to play for one of the top schools in the nation. The fact that he kept his nose clean in Vegas tells me he deserves a second chance.

Cogan · 05-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hostile

Okay, I want to take a stab at this. Looking at your draft I'd say 1 is a starter in 2007. That would be Anthony Spencer. I'll say 2 more starters in 2008, McCauley (or Brown, but not likely both) and Free, replacing Henry and Adams. One more in 2009, Ramirez, replacing Kosier.

I too am surprised at how far Siler fell, but that is character issues and I'm glad we avoided that.

Overall not bad. I'm not crazy about the McCauley pick and would have preferred WR, but as we know the guy we wanted there was gone.

Now let's look at what we did do. I think we have 4 starters right now, though 2 are on Special Teams.

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What you said about starting ST players makes no sense. I could say the same thing about the players that I feel won't be starting at their regular positions in 2007. As far as Anderson starting at FB, Folk at PK, & Stanback at KR, we already have Hoyte, Gramatica, and Miles Austin starting at the aforementioned positions, so why did we need to draft players to replace them? Hoyte did a great job lead blocking, picking up the blitz, and catching passes out in the flat. Gramatica missed only one FG attempt in his stay at the end of the season. After a typically rough rookie start, Austin started holding onto the ball, and keeping the team in good FP. If I remember correctly, he even got into the end zone against Seattle in that playoff game.

You've made my point quite well. We used three precious draft picks on player positions that were already filled. We even got a quality FB/HB as an UDFA in Jackie Battle after the draft, so it looks like we would have been all set with or without Mr. Anderson.

Fill empty spots, JJ, don't pile on the positions we are already thick in with marginal or project type players!

Hostile · 05-12-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogan

What you said about starting ST players makes no sense. I could say the same thing about the players that I feel won't be starting at their regular positions in 2007. As far as Anderson starting at FB, Folk at PK, & Stanback at KR, we already have Hoyte, Gramatica, and Miles Austin starting at the aforementioned positions, so why did we need to draft players to replace them? Hoyte did a great job lead blocking, picking up the blitz, and catching passes out in the flat. Gramatica missed only one FG attempt in his stay at the end of the season. After a typically rough rookie start, Austin started holding onto the ball, and keeping the team in good FP. If I remember correctly, he even got into the end zone against Seattle in that playoff game.

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It's called getting better at critical needs.

Hoyte can block, but he's not a receiving threat or running threat at FB.

Folk can kickoff a lot deeper than Grammatica and pin offenses deep inside their own territory

Austin was our backup KR. He didn't do much until Thompson went down. They are rolling the dice that Stanback can be better than both.

It's just that simple.

I never knew 6th rounds picks were so "precious." If we get 2 people in the 6th round who contribute, and I think we did, it's called a score.

Angus · 05-19-2007

Cogan, I think you are right that your draft would garner an A+ from the draftnicks, so-called experts, and Madden GMs, but none of them have to live with their choices.

I see people talking about "our team" when they really mean Jerry Jones' team. He puts millions into making the Cowboys the best they can be, and the people with him that help make the draft choices put the wellbeing of themselves and their families on the line by their actions and advice. None of them are morons, either.

When you say "We could have done SO much better . . . ," are you talking about your team or Jones' team?

I'll give you the A+, but I'll bet on Ireland, who has something to lose if he is wrong.

dallasfan · 05-23-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogan

1-26-Anthony Spencer, OLB/DE, Purdue, 6-3, 265, 4.7. I really liked Dan Bazuin due to his sack totals in his career, & at the East-West Shrine game, but Bazuin doesn't have nearly the flexibility required to make the move from DE to OLB. Also, Joe Thomas & Levi Brown, the two top rated OTs in the draft, both rated Spencer as the hardest player to block in their college careers. Now, DWare has that perfect counterpart to protect him from so many double teams.

Spencer was definately the best pick we could've made here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogan

3-67-Marcus McCauley, CB, Fresno St., 6-1, 205, 4.38. Although McCauley didn't have as good a Sr. year as he did as a Jr., many feel it was due to a change in coaching philosophy to negative reinforcement. McCauley didn't respond to it, and went into a shell. A player's coach like Phillips would have been perfect to help McCauley regain his confidence, and become the CB he was before-one of the most complete prospects physically and a shutdown corner entering last season.

I'll admit I'm not a big McCauley fan b/c I see him as more of a cover2 CB.
I actually like the Marten pick, but if I had to choose someone else, it'd probably be Jason Hill, but I don't care for big name players who under achieve their final year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogan

4-103-Manual Ramirez, OG/OC, Texas Tech, 6-3, 325, 5.25. A big, powerful mauling blocker in the mold of a Larry Allen. Was moving up many team's boards as more learned how physically he played, even in a pass-happy offense. Packs a powerful punch as one of college football's strongest players, (benches 550 as an NFL rookie), and moves players off the line. Although not nearly as athletic as Allen, Ramirez projects as a solid anchor for years to come. Could have moved right in to replace Marco Rivera.

Problem is we already have a replacement for Rivera, so draftting his replacement wasn't a need. I'll admit Stanback wasn't on my radar, so If I could re-choose I'd take Paul Solari.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogan

4-122-Doug Free, OT/OG/OC, Northern Illinois, 6-7, 320, 5.1. Big, durable, athletic and intelligent player who could be reliable at either OT spot. Makes great use of his quick feet & good understanding of the game to dominate in his division. Hard worker who moves well for his size. Once he gets stronger and learns to deliver a more devastating hand punch, will get an opportunity as the heir apparent to Flozell Adams. Great value pick at #122.

I'd definately keep this pick as is

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogan

6-178-Matt Toeaina, DL, Oregon, 6-2, 300, 5.0. Big, thickly built, naturally strong, with good mass distribution. Plays physical & controls blockers. Great worker with outstanding football character. Has the bull strength to push the pocket. Team captain and type of player teams seek in the locker room to push his teammates. Very competitive. Versatility allows him to line up inside or outside. Scrappy overachiever who is built to play a big man's game and can earn a roster spot as an interior plugger. Team needs an heir to Ferguson to start honing NOW.

I like the kicker pick. I bought into the Crosby hype and have wanted dallas to draft him since January. But apparently he's not as good as I thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogan

6-195-Courtney Taylor, WR, Auburn, 6-2, 205, 4.5. Very good size and athletic ability-good body dexterity, quickness, and feet. Competes hard. Intelligent with natural hands. Is tough and will put his body in harm's way. Gets into & out of his routes quickly, getting his head around to find the ball. Makes sight adjustments and reads coverages on the run. Runs well in pads. Good yac production, (yards after catch). Good blocker. Above all, unlike Stanback, he really is a WR! Great value here, since most had him going around 85-100.

Assuming that I didn't draft Hill earlier Taylor would be a good pick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogan

7-212-Courtney Brown, CB, Cal-Poly, 6-1, 200, 4.32. Along with McCauley, the team has really increased the speed in the secondary, and given the defensive coaches more options. Appears to have regained speed & agility after a torn knee ligament in '04. A dynamic athlete with great size, Brown has tremendous upside. Again, great value here at #212.

Liked this pick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogan

7-237-Brandon Siler, LB, Florida, 6-2, 240, 4.6. Unbelievable Siler is still here at #237, but what a steal. It doesn't matter that he is an ILB. You can never have enough players with his ability & speed, intelligence, and excelleration. Only makes the defense much better, and forces Bradie James to prove his worth. Siler is a playmaker who runs side to side in a heartbeat.

I think if you compare the players I picked to the ones Jones & Co. picked, you will have to concede I would have given us an A across the board. Add Jerah's extra pick next year, and it's a slam dunk A+.

OK, let me have it.

Siler wouldn't see the field or maybe roster behind Ayodele, James, Carpenter and Burnett. Overall It seems you just gravitated towards names, which doesn't always work out (check out our 02' draft)

dogunwo · 05-23-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

Everyone always wants to take the small school workout warriors with late round picks, but I've often found that the best Day 2 steals in the draft are 4 year starters from major conferences who fall because they're not great workout guys. Maybe the best recent example is the Chargers getting Shane Olivea in the 7th round. Jay Ratliff is a great example for us. So while everyone is drooling over Courtney Brown based off workout numbers, I kind of have my eye on Alan Ball.

The next Mike Mckenzie without the hair?

Verdict · 05-24-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

Everyone always wants to take the small school workout warriors with late round picks, but I've often found that the best Day 2 steals in the draft are 4 year starters from major conferences who fall because they're not great workout guys. Maybe the best recent example is the Chargers getting Shane Olivea in the 7th round. Jay Ratliff is a great example for us. So while everyone is drooling over Courtney Brown based off workout numbers, I kind of have my eye on Alan Ball.

I think you are really on to something there. You don't start for four years at a powerhouse football team in a major conference unless you have what it takes. A guy might crack the starting lineup for a year as a weak link, but, odds are they could find a replacement for a weak link in short order.

LatinMind · 05-26-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by dallasfan

I'll admit I'm not a big McCauley fan b/c I see him as more of a cover2 CB.
I actually like the Marten pick, but if I had to choose someone else, it'd probably be Jason Hill, but I don't care for big name players who under achieve their final year.

perfect example of couch scout analyst talking about something he doesnt know. or probably heard that from another board.

fresno state doesnt play a cover 2 style defense. they play pressure man to man, with alot of bump and run. very little zone. McCauley was one of the most aggressive Cb's in this draft. plays real physical, and carolina found out with richard marshall last yr on the style of cb fresno state builds.

McCauley didnt really underacheive, fresno state had 2 freshman QB's and the defense sent the majority of the season on the field. sooner or later it was going to take its toll.

i guess your whole theory was shot to hell now wasnt it.

dallasfan · 05-28-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by LatinMind

perfect example of couch scout analyst talking about something he doesnt know. or probably heard that from another board.

fresno state doesnt play a cover 2 style defense. they play pressure man to man, with alot of bump and run. very little zone. McCauley was one of the most aggressive Cb's in this draft. plays real physical, and carolina found out with richard marshall last yr on the style of cb fresno state builds.

McCauley didnt really underacheive, fresno state had 2 freshman QB's and the defense sent the majority of the season on the field. sooner or later it was going to take its toll.

i guess your whole theory was shot to hell now wasnt it.

I don't see why some people around here feel the need to be an ***. If you disagree with me do so, I could care less, but the whole internet tough guy act is more annoying then anything.

But back to the topic, he didn't have a good senior season, and had a poor senior bowl week. But we won't know for years if my entire argument is shot to hell

Doomsday101 · 05-29-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogan

I love the fact that JJ & Co. wheeled & dealed to get us an extra 1st rd. pick in the 2008 draft, one that almost without question is much deeper & more talented than the 2007 version.
I also like how the Cowboys were able to trade down to get half of Clevelands' picks, which were early in each round.

However, we could & should have used those picks so much more wisely according to our needs & the talent available. Having said that, here is what I would have done given the picks we had, and the talent still available when each pick came up:

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Let you have it? Your giving your opinion on an imperfect science called the Draft. Your list could end up being a bust just like any NFL teams draft board.

Alexander · 05-29-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by dallasfan

But we won't know for years if my entire argument is shot to hell

He was referring to your logic being shot to hell, probably not your entire argument. It's always opinion as to why people like certain players over others and it is just that, opinion. But sometimes the basis of the opinion can be questioned.

He is correct, McCauley is not and was not a cover-2 type cornerback. He is quite aggressive and it was when he lost his aggressive nature after a concussion where his struggles seemed to coincide playing in Pat Hill's predominantly man coverage schemes.

So how exactly did you arrive at the conclusion that you did about the cover-2 is the question.