to wall or not to wall...

[burmafrd]

We need to be able to control our own borders. It can be done. But we lack the political will to do it.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Originally Posted by iceberg

my basic stance is the same from the other board bp. you build a wall to keep people out another facet of it is that it keeps people "in". if we work so actively to keep people *out* do we need to change the working on the statue of liberty?

i know, it's different when done "legally" so what are the problems preventing them from coming over legally? can those be better addressed?

wasn't aware of indian lands being a key here - but can we keep pushing them aside and enforcing our will on them yet again? give them crap land and then come back and say "oops - need to put up a wall but this shouldn't bother you at all... where's our moral obligation here now?

i think the wall would be a huge mistake and a costly one and in the end not make much of a dent in the problem itself. it's a band aide till a better way comes along and to me it's just too expensive a band aide.

Yes I already knew your stance from our arguments in the past and that is why I did not address those.

I did not even consider the Indian reservation thing until some time earlier this week when talking with someone.

I see NO WAY we can make them move. We made that mistake too many times in the past.

I was curious about giving incentives for them to police their own borders.

If not there could be check points out of the reservations.

It is not an easy issue to tackle in those situations.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

We need to be able to control our own borders. It can be done. But we lack the political will to do it.

Hey...we actually agree on something in this zone.

You sexy hunk you...sweet talking me like that.

Back to being serious.

Do you ever get the feeling that both sides are really not that interested in this issue as they pretend to be?

Do you ever get the feeling this is just all political talking points to rally their bases for elections?

[iceberg]

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

Yes I already knew your stance from our arguments in the past and that is why I did not address those.

I did not even consider the Indian reservation thing until some time earlier this week when talking with someone.

I see NO WAY we can make them move. We made that mistake too many times in the past.

I was curious about giving incentives for them to police their own borders.

If not there could be check points out of the reservations.

It is not an easy issue to tackle in those situations.

nope. and while i may not agree with what we ultimately do, i'll back it just the same and hope i'm wrong and for the best.

good point on the indian angle. we've got to be very careful here or just be hypocrites all over again.

[burmafrd]

I think there are those out there that really want to do it. Maybe 10-20 people in congress and a few elsewhere.

[joseephuss]

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

Hey...we actually agree on something in this zone.

You sexy hunk you...sweet talking me like that.

Back to being serious.

Do you ever get the feeling that both sides are really not that interested in this issue as they pretend to be?

Do you ever get the feeling this is just all political talking points to rally their bases for elections?

That applies to most issues.

[Danny White]

Originally Posted by Yeagermeister

The way I understand it the wall is supposed to be a concrete one......not trying to nitpick.

Yeager... the fence is not concrete... it is a triple-layer, Isreali style security fence.

Congressman Hunter, who had the fence in California built and is championing the cause in Congress for the whole border to be secured, has a site featuring several pictures of the real fence.

http://www.house.gov/hunter/fence.htm


As many of you here know, I've been to the border with the Minutemen (not a checkpoint, but section of unsecured border in the middle of nowhere) and you'd be shocked to see the rickety strand of barbed wire that separates the two countries for most of the border.

[bbgun]

Anything to keep the Irish out. :-)

[03EBZ06]

Although US/Mexico border gets lots of attention and rightly so, I think bigger threat to our national security is US/Canada border. US/Canada border is much longer nearly unsecured and anybody can enter US through it but we don't pay much of attention because it isn't as big of issues in terms of illegal immigration.

[iceberg]

Originally Posted by 03EBZ06

Although US/Mexico border gets lots of attention and rightly so, I think bigger threat to our national security is US/Canada border. US/Canada border is much longer nearly unsecured and anybody can enter US through it but we don't pay much of attention because it isn't as big of issues in terms of illegal immigration.

that's the duality of the issue. in the south it's not for terrorists that i can see. it's for illegals coming in here in droves and messing with our own economy.

if we want to "wall off" for sure we'd need to extend the wall to 3 miles out into the water (or wahtever that is) and yes, canada. then let's build a dome so we can control who flies in and out of the country.

how "secure" is "secure"?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Originally Posted by 03EBZ06

Although US/Mexico border gets lots of attention and rightly so, I think bigger threat to our national security is US/Canada border. US/Canada border is much longer nearly unsecured and anybody can enter US through it but we don't pay much of attention because it isn't as big of issues in terms of illegal immigration.

You make a good point.

I think the difference as I see it is that Canada *may* be more inclined to work on the issue with us as where mexico is just the opposite.

I believe the mexican government, or some part of it, even printed out pamphlets of where to get water and what to do not to get hurt if you decide to cross over.

[Yeagermeister]

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

You make a good point.

I think the difference as I see it is that Canada *may* be more inclined to work on the issue with us as where mexico is just the opposite.

I believe the mexican government, or some part of it, even printed out pamphlets of where to get water and what to do not to get hurt if you decide to cross over.

It also included a map of the best places to cross.

[jterrell]

We should definitely put up a wall and take down the welcome home signs.

I don't expect it to stop illegal immigration but it will decrease it and that is a nice first step.

Right now big business loves the aliens who will work for nothing eternally.

So we have to fight the far left and far right on this

[Rocky]

This is a wall. Not proposed. Referred to as such by the MSM to evoke certain undesirable images...ie the Berlin Wall--built to keep ppl in, not others out.




A proposed security fence endorsed by the Minutemen. This administration will do everything within its power to see that it's never completed.

[Sasquatch]

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

Do you ever get the feeling that both sides are really not that interested in this issue as they pretend to be?

Do you ever get the feeling this is just all political talking points to rally their bases for elections?

I know I do because the most effective way to discourage illegal immigration would be to eliminate the underlying economic causes which might entail things like withdrawing from NAFTA and the WTO and other unpopular measures.