Even Canadian Leadership Comes to US for Life and Death Treatment

[Aikbach]

When it is urgent and can't wait Canada's liberal elite have even shyed away from their self-vaunted social medicine scene and opted instead for American care, apparently there are things private medicine does better, like save lives.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...914?hub=Health

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by Aikbach

When it is urgent and can't wait Canada's liberal elite have even shyed away from their self-vaunted social medicine scene and opted instead for American care, apparently there are things private medicine does better, like save lives.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...914?hub=Health

And very common. Many of these so called better health care system is great in theory but when you need quick attention and quality care the US is where these big wigs come. Sorry I don't want to sacrifice quality over quantity. Is the US health care perfect? No and neither is anyone else’s no matter how much the Michael Moore’s and Hilary Clinton would have you believe. I'm all in favor of trying to improve things but these so called great models are not that great and the vast majority of Americans if stuck with this in a pinch I don't believe would be thrilled with the lack of care. One last thing we do pay a lot and a lot of that money goes right back into research and development of new and better medicines and procedures

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

And very common. Many of these so called better health care system is great in theory but when you need quick attention and quality care the US is where these big wigs come. Sorry I don't want to sacrifice quality over quantity. Is the US health care perfect? No and neither is anyone else’s no matter how much the Michael Moore’s and Hilary Clinton would have you believe. I'm all in favor of trying to improve things but these so called great models are not that great and the vast majority of Americans if stuck with this in a pinch I don't believe would be thrilled with the lack of care. One last thing we do pay a lot and a lot of that money goes right back into research and development of new and better medicines and procedures

Hillary's plan is nothing like the Canadian plan and calls only for mandatory health insurance with tax breaks; not for any socialization.

But then again if you actually listened to Hillary's plan you would know that.

Stronach when through the entire pre and post surgical process in Canada and was referred to a US physician for a specific operation. That is hardly damning of their system.

But let's not allow reality to cloud a political point.

[trickblue]

Originally Posted by jterrell

But let's not allow reality to cloud a political point.

But wait... isn't that what politics is all about these days?

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by jterrell

Hillary's plan is nothing like the Canadian plan and calls only for mandatory health insurance with tax breaks; not for any socialization.

But then again if you actually listened to Hillary's plan you would know that.

Stronach when through the entire pre and post surgical process in Canada and was referred to a US physician for a specific operation. That is hardly damning of their system.

But let's not allow reality to cloud a political point.

If you don't think it is going to cost the tax payers your crazy. Nothing in this world is for free and the Gov gets their money from guess who the tax payers and we will pay for it one way or the other because this plan is not going to pay for itself. As far as Canada system they are losing doctors who are coming here to practice instead of that so called great system of waiting list to have proceedures done but then don't let politics cloud judgement. The US has some of the best medical facilties in the world and that is not by accident. You may want bean counters telling you what your treatment has to be I would rather the doctor who knows me to tell me what is best for me.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

If you don't think it is going to cost the tax payers your crazy. Nothing in this world is for free and the Gov gets their money from guess who the tax payers and we will pay for it one way or the other because this plan is not going to pay for itself. As far as Canada system they are losing doctors who are coming here to practice instead of that so called great system of waiting list to have proceedures done but then don't let politics cloud judgement. The US has some of the best medical facilties in the world and that is not by accident. You may want bean counters telling you what your treatment has to be I would rather the doctor who knows me to tell me what is best for me.

The cost for the plan is laid out by Hillary.
She will repeal the tax break Bush handed down for those who make over 250K per year.

Again, let's understand here we ALREADY pay taxes for the elderly, those in abject poverty and military and ex-military personnel.

This plan is merely putting in place a mandatory health insurance policy so that we cover gaps which right now belong to mostly lower-middle class families who have jobs.

You do not have to change your insurance coverage or choose a new doctor.

Again this article is discussing how 1 wealthy Canadian went through cancer treatment in the Canadian health care system then was referred by that lowly idiotic Canuck to a specialist in California. Somehow the lowly idiot back in Canada managed to provide post-op care and recovery. (Ironically just about the exact same way it works here. You see a doc on your insurance plan ad they refer you out. For some surgeries they'd have to refer you outside of your coverage and you'd have to pay out of pocket; especially for doctor's considered the best)

None of that has to do with anything, and is certainly not an indication of how great we are.

I'd love to go see Dr. Robert Andrews about my neck. It is rather messed up from years of playing football and 'spearing' folks on occasion. BUT my insurance is not paying for that and I can not afford to do so on my own.

Nothing in Hillary's plan says we should stop allowing Americans the choice to go see Dr. Andrews or that we should start raising taxes on anyone making less than 250K per year.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by jterrell

The cost for the plan is laid out by Hillary.
She will repeal the tax break Bush handed down for those who make over 250K per year.

Again, let's understand here we ALREADY pay taxes for the elderly, those in abject poverty and military and ex-military personnel.

This plan is merely putting in place a mandatory health insurance policy so that we cover gaps which right now belong to mostly lower-middle class families who have jobs.

You do not have to change your insurance coverage or choose a new doctor.

[View Full Quote]Again this article is discussing how 1 wealthy Canadian went through cancer treatment in the Canadian health care system then was referred by that lowly idiotic Canuck to a specialist in California. Somehow the lowly idiot back in Canada managed to provide post-op care and recovery. (Ironically just about the exact same way it works here. You see a doc on your insurance plan ad they refer you out. For some surgeries they'd have to refer you outside of your coverage and you'd have to pay out of pocket; especially for doctor's considered the best)

None of that has to do with anything, and is certainly not an indication of how great we are.

I'd love to go see Dr. Robert Andrews about my neck. It is rather messed up from years of playing football and 'spearing' folks on occasion. BUT my insurance is not paying for that and I can not afford to do so on my own.

Nothing in Hillary's plan says we should stop allowing Americans the choice to go see Dr. Andrews or that we should start raising taxes on anyone making less than 250K per year.

I don't see US patients being told to go to another country. Look your buying into Hilary BS not me even her own party did not vote for her plan when her husband was the president now all of a sudden her ideal of national health care is great. You can buy it if you want I don't

[iceberg]

Originally Posted by jterrell

The cost for the plan is laid out by Hillary.
She will repeal the tax break Bush handed down for those who make over 250K per year.

Again, let's understand here we ALREADY pay taxes for the elderly, those in abject poverty and military and ex-military personnel.

This plan is merely putting in place a mandatory health insurance policy so that we cover gaps which right now belong to mostly lower-middle class families who have jobs.

You do not have to change your insurance coverage or choose a new doctor.

[View Full Quote]Again this article is discussing how 1 wealthy Canadian went through cancer treatment in the Canadian health care system then was referred by that lowly idiotic Canuck to a specialist in California. Somehow the lowly idiot back in Canada managed to provide post-op care and recovery. (Ironically just about the exact same way it works here. You see a doc on your insurance plan ad they refer you out. For some surgeries they'd have to refer you outside of your coverage and you'd have to pay out of pocket; especially for doctor's considered the best)

None of that has to do with anything, and is certainly not an indication of how great we are.

I'd love to go see Dr. Robert Andrews about my neck. It is rather messed up from years of playing football and 'spearing' folks on occasion. BUT my insurance is not paying for that and I can not afford to do so on my own.

Nothing in Hillary's plan says we should stop allowing Americans the choice to go see Dr. Andrews or that we should start raising taxes on anyone making less than 250K per year.

i did listen. how do you make insurance "mandatory" for health? if i don't buy it, then what? if i get in an accidnet youlet me die cause i didn't partake the hilliary plan?

and WHY do people want to "punish" the rich because they got that way? we live in a country and is supposed to encourage you to succeed, yet as soon as you do we tax the ever loving hell out of you to give to those who won't get off their tails to do the same.

we treat the "rich" with jealousy vs. admiration and i don't get that. maybe some inherated it, maybe some just got lucky, but then again, maybe someone went from nowhere to millionaire by hard work and dedication that should be the example to follow, not tax the hell out of in punishment.

take from the rich and give to the poor is not a new idea, is it? has it ever really worked?

i'll keep an open mind to her plan but i want to hear how she's going to let people earn their way vs. take advantage of "the rich" to fund gimmicky solutions to their problems.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

I don't see US patients being told to go to another country. Look your buying into Hilary BS not me even her own party did not vote for her plan when her husband was the president now all of a sudden her ideal of national health care is great. You can buy it if you want I don't

This is not the plan she developed in 93/94.
That plan was more socialized by far.

This plan is for a universal health care coverage as provided by insurance.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by iceberg

i did listen. how do you make insurance "mandatory" for health? if i don't buy it, then what? if i get in an accidnet youlet me die cause i didn't partake the hilliary plan?

and WHY do people want to "punish" the rich because they got that way? we live in a country and is supposed to encourage you to succeed, yet as soon as you do we take the ever loving hell out of you to give to those who won't get off their tails to do the same.

we treat the "rich" with jealousy vs. admiration and i don't get that. maybe some inherated it, maybe some just got lucky, but then again, maybe someone went from nowhere to millionaire by hard work and dedication that should be the example to follow, not tax the hell out of in punishment.

take from the rich and give to the poor is not a new idea, is it? has it ever really worked?

[View Full Quote]i'll keep an open mind to her plan but i want to hear how she's going to let people earn their way vs. take advantage of "the rich" to fund gimmicky solutions to their problems.

I agree. It is socialism at its worst and rewards many who show no incentive. I know many people who by their own choice do not have health care, the companies they work for pay them a lot more than I get with the ideal that you can go out and buy your own health care yet they choose not to. While I do think health care changes need to be made to help make it make more affordable I do not believe in give away programs. One last thing in many countries that do have so called free health care their doctors do not have to pay out big money on malpractice insurance.

[iceberg]

Originally Posted by jterrell

This is not the plan she developed in 93/94.
That plan was more socialized by far.

This plan is for a universal health care coverage as provided by insurance.

and who is paying for this insurance? if not the person getting it, it's doomed.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by jterrell

This is not the plan she developed in 93/94.
That plan was more socialized by far.

This plan is for a universal health care coverage as provided by insurance.

John Edwards plan?

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by iceberg

i did listen. how do you make insurance "mandatory" for health? if i don't buy it, then what? if i get in an accidnet youlet me die cause i didn't partake the hilliary plan?

and WHY do people want to "punish" the rich because they got that way? we live in a country and is supposed to encourage you to succeed, yet as soon as you do we take the ever loving hell out of you to give to those who won't get off their tails to do the same.

we treat the "rich" with jealousy vs. admiration and i don't get that. maybe some inherated it, maybe some just got lucky, but then again, maybe someone went from nowhere to millionaire by hard work and dedication that should be the example to follow, not tax the hell out of in punishment.

take from the rich and give to the poor is not a new idea, is it? has it ever really worked?

[View Full Quote]i'll keep an open mind to her plan but i want to hear how she's going to let people earn their way vs. take advantage of "the rich" to fund gimmicky solutions to their problems.

Take from the rich and give to the poor is working as we speak; because whatever you give to the poor comes right back to the rich. It is the rich who can horde money, the poor spend it all to survive or in bad habits. But it has been proven giving money to the rich only makes them richer while giving money to the poor filters it back through the system until it ends up in the hands of the rich again. The poor drives our economy. We would not have business without them.

This repeals a single tax break but does not raise taxes.

The rich largely are rich based on the poor. Haves can control many things. There is a huge benefit to have a bigger pile of money than anyone else whether it be business or personal. Because that money opens up opportunities to make more money.

There is lots of big talk in this country about even playing fields and self responsibility but how many people would say OK, let's clear out all the bank accounts and do away with all personal property and start over from scratch today?

Hillary's plan is still privatized. The mandatory insurance would be much like mandatory car insurance or mandatory seat belt laws or many other mandatory laws. You'd be penalized if you did not have insurance and it would not be an option to refuse it. (I am already in that boat actually)

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

John Edwards plan?

His plan is socialized.

Much more similar to the initial Hillary plan that she knows would never pass Congress.

[iceberg]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

I agree. It is socialism at its worst and rewards many who show no incentive. I know many people who by their own choice do not have health care, the companies they work for pay them a lot more than I get with the ideal that you can go out and buy your own health care yet they choose not to. While I do think health care changes need to be made to help make it make more affordable I do not believe in give away programs. One last thing in many countries that do have so called free health care their doctors not having to pay out big money on malpractice insurance.

this is a part of the overall solution! *NOT* to give the poor coverage provided by the rich. that only deals with 1 facet of the problem and not very well.

frivilous lawsuits left and right. make that harder to do. i was asked to sit on a potential jury once for a medical malpractice case where the doctor made a mistake. you know, it does happen but it's a lottery for patients and that needs to end. the mistake in this case wasn't that serious and the doctor did fix it. all the details i know cause when they asked me what my father did i said he was a professional witness in medical malpractice cases and i've helped him prepare for several cases and can easily spot bull****. (not phrased quite like that) but hey - guess what?

i got denied to sit on the jury. : ) i would keep an open mind but from what i heard preliminary, he had no chance.

how much did that cost the doctor in time he has to make up for? how much did that cost the court system and the people called in to be on the jury? for those who happen to win those types of cases, who eventually pays for it?

not the insurance company, that's just an added cost of insurance now that we absorb.

WE absorb.

employers absorb in the rates for their eimployees.

i have one of the best insurance policies on the planet due to where i work and it's self-funded by the company. would it be possible to help smaller companies "self-fund" this benefit?

we have to look at the whole medical field problem from top down across the board if we're to truely make it better. picking out one part and patting hillary on the back is useless and gains nothing.

we're still "giving" to people who won't "earn". maybe it takes some of the burden off the system, but where does it put it? on those who already work hard to get "rich".

if you won't get up and earn your own way i have no pity for what happens to you. handicapped exceptions and specials situations being different, we can all earn our own way in our own capacity. you don't, you have nothing.

that's the way it should be.