Grading the DE/OLB tweeners... I'm bored

[Silverstar]

I was looking at all the DE/OLB tweeners, that the Cowboys might consider as Ellis' eventual replacement. I decided to go with a simple premise, that if Ware is our WSLB at 6-4 257lbs, then our SSLB should be at least heavier than that right?

Right or wrong, that's how I feel about it and that's who I decided to look for in this draft. So, I started looking for tweeners at least 6020 inches tall and weighing 260 to 275lbs at the most. Then, I wanted a prospect that could run at least a 4.75 forty, a 1.60 or better 10 yard dash, a 3 cone drill of 7.20 or better and at least 25 reps. To me, that's adequate speed/strength to cause pressure from the LOS, cover a TE downfield or change directions in space by a SSLB in a 3-4.

Using these measurables and their best numbers at either the combine or campus workouts, I came up with only 4 prospects!

Winners

Anthony Spencer - 6027, 261, 4.69, 1.56, 7.14, 30 Reps
Brian Robison - 6031, 260, 4.67, 1.49, 6.89, 27 reps
Jay Moore - 6046, 274, 4.74, 1.59, 7.19, 26 reps
CJ Ah You - 6036, 274, 4.70, 1.53, 7.06, 26 reps


Losers

Gaines Adams - 6046, 260, 4.64, 1.58, 7.17, 21 reps
Jarvis Moss - 6064, 258 (soaking wet) 4.70, 1.52, 7.21, 16 reps
LaMarr Woodley - 6014, 266, 4.74, 1.65, N/A , 29 reps
Quentin Moses - 6052, 261, 4.75, 1.59, 7.38, 17 reps
Charles Johnson - 6022, 275, 4.75, 1.58, 7.50, 33 reps
Ray McDonald - 6033, 276, 4.88, 1.62, 7.41, never lifted
Victor Abiamiri - 6042, 267, 4.80, 1.56, N/A, 25 reps
Tim Crowder - 6035, 272, 4.69, 1.59, 7.28, 32 reps
Baraka Atkins - 6044, 271, 4.69, 1.56, 7.02, 22 reps
Dan Bazuin - 6027, 266, 4.77, 1.59, 7.09, 25 reps


Very picky I know, but I did give them two chances (combine/campus) to get into my range. Not an exact science for sure, but it did separate the better prospects and shine some light on others. Of course, Adams and Atkins can definitely get stronger, but the others were simply lacking in one form or another. If we could get Jay Moore or Baraka Atkins in say the 4th or 5th round, that would be a steal IMO.


Ok, my work is finished.

[tomson75]

Give me Robison in the fourth!

[CowboyFan74]

What did you mean by soaking wet next to Jarvis Moss?

[ENGCowboy]

Nice good work you must be bored.

I like the reasoning on what we need and Atkins/Rbinson sounds like a great pick, with a year to learn the defense

But only if WP is definately moving Carp inside.

[Clove]

Originally Posted by Silverstar

I was looking at all the DE/OLB tweeners, that the Cowboys might consider as Ellis' eventual replacement. I decided to go with a simple premise, that if Ware is our WSLB at 6-4 257lbs, then our SSLB should be at least heavier than that right?

Right or wrong, that's how I feel about it and that's who I decided to look for in this draft. So, I started looking for tweeners at least 6020 inches tall and weighing 260 to 275lbs at the most. Then, I wanted a prospect that could run at least a 4.75 forty, a 1.60 or better 10 yard dash, a 3 cone drill of 7.20 or better and at least 25 reps. To me, that's adequate speed/strength to cause pressure from the LOS, cover a TE downfield or change directions in space by a SSLB in a 3-4.

Using these measurables and their best numbers at either the combine or campus workouts, I came up with only 4 prospects!

Winners

Anthony Spencer - 6027, 261, 4.69, 1.56, 7.14, 30 Reps
[View Full Quote]Brian Robison - 6031, 260, 4.67, 1.49, 6.89, 27 reps
Jay Moore - 6046, 274, 4.74, 1.59, 7.19, 26 reps
CJ Ah You - 6036, 274, 4.70, 1.53, 7.06, 26 reps


Losers

Gaines Adams - 6046, 260, 4.64, 1.58, 7.17, 21 reps
Jarvis Moss - 6064, 258 (soaking wet) 4.70, 1.52, 7.21, 16 reps
LaMarr Woodley - 6014, 266, 4.74, 1.65, N/A , 29 reps
Quentin Moses - 6052, 261, 4.75, 1.59, 7.38, 17 reps
Charles Johnson - 6022, 275, 4.75, 1.58, 7.50, 33 reps
Ray McDonald - 6033, 276, 4.88, 1.62, 7.41, never lifted
Victor Abiamiri - 6042, 267, 4.80, 1.56, N/A, 25 reps
Tim Crowder - 6035, 272, 4.69, 1.59, 7.28, 32 reps
Baraka Atkins - 6044, 271, 4.69, 1.56, 7.02, 22 reps
Dan Bazuin - 6027, 266, 4.77, 1.59, 7.09, 25 reps


Very picky I know, but I did give them two chances (combine/campus) to get into my range. Not an exact science for sure, but it did separate the better prospects and shine some light on others. Of course, Adams and Atkins can definitely get stronger, but the others were simply lacking in one form or another. If we could get Jay Moore or Baraka Atkins in say the 4th or 5th round, that would be a steal IMO.


Ok, my work is finished.

Good work.
The only thing I will say about this logic is playmaking ability exemption. If the guy misses out on a couple of measurables, but he is a flat out play-maker, he makes my list based on just getting the job done. (period )

[AbeBeta]

Measurables? How about performance playing a role?

[Silverstar]

Originally Posted by abersonc

Measurables? How about performance playing a role?

Do you mean overall production...like stats?

Hard to come up with a standard for individual production.

[AbeBeta]

Originally Posted by Silverstar

Do you mean overall production...like stats?

Hard to come up with a standard for individual production.

you mean like how a guy actually performs in football games rather than in the underwear Olympics?

[dargonking999]

IMO, you cna jude a players performance in College, to what he will do in the NFL. There are just way to man varaibles that affect it. I like silverstars anaylsis, as it focuses, on there size, speed, and strengh, the only things that wont decline from College ==> NFL

[ThreeSportStar80]

I'm bored just by reading your reasons for the rankings...*yawns*

[Doomsday101]

These workouts give team a bit more info for the draft but in the end you can't erase 3 or 4 years of play on 1 day of workouts. There are some players on the Losers list who are very good players who I think have a chance to have very good careers and while the workout session may hurt them a bit in the draft it really has little to do with playing the games.

[Silverstar]

Originally Posted by ELDudearino

What did you mean by soaking wet next to Jarvis Moss?

Jarvis weighed 250 at the combine and then added 8 pounds for his Pro Day. So, he's not a natural 260lb player (yet) and that's why I didn't give him the extra 2lbs to fit in my range. I gave it to Adams and Robison though, who weighed in at 258 and 259 at the combine....but didn't like doing it.

[Silverstar]

Originally Posted by abersonc

you mean like how a guy actually performs in football games rather than in the underwear Olympics?

Funny how those underwear Olympics, seem awfully important to NFL Owners, GM's, HC's and scouts.

You didn't answer my question...so here's more.


How do you grade performance in games?

What do you measure it by....tackles, sacks, tfl's, ff, fr, pbu's?

What is the lowest standard your willing to accept from a SSLB?

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by Silverstar

Funny how those underwear Olympics, seem awfully important to NFL Owners, GM's, HC's and scouts.

You didn't answer my question...so here's more.


How do you grade performance in games?

What do you measure it by....tackles, sacks, tfl's, ff, fr, pbu's?

What is the lowest standard your willing to accept from a pass rusher?

I would say scouts look at how quick a guy is off the ball, how quickly he reads and reacts during a play. There are a lot of intangibles that you can look at without resorting to just stats. I have heard more and more scouts say they get more out of the personal interviews with players than things like the 3 cone shuttle or even the 40. These workouts are drafting tools but do not replace the work a player has done on the field.

[Silverstar]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

These workouts give team a bit more info for the draft but in the end you can't erase 3 or 4 years of play on 1 day of workouts. There are some players on the Losers list who are very good players who I think have a chance to have very good careers and while the workout session may hurt them a bit in the draft it really has little to do with playing the games.

Agreed, but you can erase a lot with a major injury or even a history of nagging injuries. Teams aren't going to be impressed by any player, who can't stay on the field and take the pounding that comes with the job.

Workouts are very important when grading a player and rightfully so.