Grading the DE/OLB tweeners... I'm bored

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by Silverstar

Agreed, but you can erase a lot with a major injury or even a history of nagging injuries. Teams aren't going to be impressed by any player, who can't stay on the field and take the pounding that comes with the job.

Workouts are very important when grading a player and rightfully so.

True there are things that can hurt your draft status and as I said the workouts are a tool to gather more info but only a fool would watch the workouts and throw away kids entire career over something like the bench press or a 3 cone drill. Those are drills but they don't give anyone the whole picture of that player. As for player who are constantly out with nagging injuries that can hurt a player then again a guy like Peterson is still going to be around the top 5 regardless of his injuries because they know he has the talent to play this game at a high level. I do agree workouts are important but they are far from a tell all about that player which is why scouts spend so much time during the season at the practice and at the games and a 1 day workout is not going to change their views that much.

[Silverstar]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

True there are things that can hurt your draft status and as I said the workouts are a tool to gather more info but only a fool would watch the workouts and throw away kids entire career over something like the bench press or a 3 cone drill. Those are drills but they don't give anyone the whole picture of that player. As for player who are constantly out with nagging injuries that can hurt a player then again a guy like Peterson is still going to be around the top 5 regardless of his injuries because they know he has the talent to play this game at a high level. I do agree workouts are important but they are far from a tell all about that player which is why scouts spend so much time during the season at the practice and at the games and a 1 day workout is not going to change their views that much.

Oh, come on!

Peterson is a consensus top 5 pick, because of his play and his impressive workout numbers. If he had run a slow forty time, he would not be a top 5 pick and Lynch would be nipping at his heels right now. Ted Ginn jr. is another example of what can happen if you don't workout. He's been slipping down draft boards ever since he got injured. He used to be top 10 pick, now he's somewhere in the 20-25 range.

It matters...

[Doomsday101]

I have heard simular statements from other personel guys in the NFL:

The question that has been raised about the Combine, as it has evolved, is how significant a scouting tool it has become for teams.
"I always tell players that 90 percent of their evaluation is based on what they did from August through January when they played," Steelers director of football operations Kevin Colbert said. "Now, we get at the Combine and we've got to find out what kind of people they are, how healthy they are, and then, the workout is just icing on the cake."
The workout aspect of the Combine has become a central component of it, as prospects are measured against one another (and NFL standards) in areas such as speed, strength and agility.
There is, however, still considerable debate over how fast running the 40-yard dash or how many times lifting 225 pounds is telling of what kind of player a prospect will be in the NFL.
"If a good player works out good, great," said Colbert, who will be at the Combine with new Steelers coach Mike Tomlin. "If a good player doesn't work out, great. It doesn't change your opinion that that guy's still a good player. If an average player works out great, then you'll make a mistake by running that player up the (draft) board based on that workout."


Work outs are tools but they are not the biggest factor in teams selecting players. Sorry there are no 3 cones on a football field during a game and no one runs the 40 on game day, these are tools to get more info on a player but what you do as a player is what teams will go by more than anything else

[Silverstar]

I'm not saying performance on the college field is a waste of time in the NFL....that's downright ridiculous. Players are invited to the combine, based on what they did on the field to begin with. However, if a player refuses to work out and stands on his college play alone for whatever reason...there's gonna be major consequences.

[Chocolate Lab]

Nice post... But I would take Jarvis Moss in a heartbeat. He might only be 255 or so, but that's already as big as Carpenter, and Moss has a lot taller and longer frame to add more weight. Plus, he has what I think is that innate ability to get to the QB off the edge.

My only concerns with him would be character and work ethic related. But I don't doubt he'd be an excellent complement to Ware on the field.

[AbeBeta]

Originally Posted by Silverstar

Funny how those underwear Olympics, seem awfully important to NFL Owners, GM's, HC's and scouts.

You didn't answer my question...so here's more.


How do you grade performance in games?

What do you measure it by....tackles, sacks, tfl's, ff, fr, pbu's?

What is the lowest standard your willing to accept from a SSLB?

Lookit -- I'm not a scout and don't pretend to be one -- but any system that ranks a flat out stud like Gaines Adams who is a constantly disruptive defender as a "loser" is just plain wrong. You can't tell me that owners, gms, hc, and scouts are downgrading him because he didn't hit 25 reps.

[Silverstar]

Originally Posted by abersonc

Lookit -- I'm not a scout and don't pretend to be one -- but any system that ranks a flat out stud like Gaines Adams who is a constantly disruptive defender as a "loser" is just plain wrong. You can't tell me that owners, gms, hc, and scouts are downgrading him because he didn't hit 25 reps.

Adams can get stronger no doubt about that...I even said as much. I just made my standard for the SOLB position and wanted to stick by it. I said it wasn't an exact science and any one of those players, could turn out to be better than Adams. Great college play doesn't always translate to the NFL.....and don't we all know it.

[AbeBeta]

Originally Posted by Silverstar

Great college play doesn't always translate to the NFL.....and don't we all know it.

I'd be willing to bet that great college play translates to the NFL more than does a great workout.

[MichaelWinicki]

Nice work Silverstar...

[Bob Sacamano]

Originally Posted by abersonc

Lookit -- I'm not a scout and don't pretend to be one -- but any system that ranks a flat out stud like Gaines Adams who is a constantly disruptive defender as a "loser" is just plain wrong. You can't tell me that owners, gms, hc, and scouts are downgrading him because he didn't hit 25 reps.

I agree w/ you, all draft picks are going to have to spend a couple of years lifting in an NFL strength and conditioning program

[Bob Sacamano]

Originally Posted by abersonc

I'd be willing to bet that great college play translates to the NFL more than does a great workout.

I think being a good athlete and football player are equally important

[jobberone]

I'd put G Adams performance and abilities on a par with Michael Dean Perry. Adams has better numbers but on field they are close.

I don't see how you can rate Adams below any DL in the draft based purely on numbers.

BTW, Adams was the strongest player at Clemson this year and benched 490. I don't know why he only did 21 reps but it isn't because he's not strong.

[Rockytop6]

Originally Posted by Silverstar

Adams can get stronger no doubt about that...I even said as much. I just made my standard for the SOLB position and wanted to stick by it. I said it wasn't an exact science and any one of those players, could turn out to be better than Adams. Great college play doesn't always translate to the NFL.....and don't we all know it.

Good work even if it leaves unanswered questions. Any formula will. Questions like:

Heart?
Instinct?
Intellect?
Functional Strength?
Intangibles?

Bob Lilly, Mr. Cowboy, did not have great weight room strength. I read an article many years ago about him that said however, he had excellent functional strength. Don't ask me to explain it.

[Biggems]

Originally Posted by tomson75

Give me Robison in the fourth!

Should go no later than the 3rd, might make it into the 2nd

[MichaelWinicki]

Originally Posted by Chocolate Lab

Nice post... But I would take Jarvis Moss in a heartbeat. He might only be 255 or so, but that's already as big as Carpenter, and Moss has a lot taller and longer frame to add more weight. Plus, he has what I think is that innate ability to get to the QB off the edge.

My only concerns with him would be character and work ethic related. But I don't doubt he'd be an excellent complement to Ware on the field.

I wouldn't take Moss.

I don't view him as someone that is going to be able to hold-up vs. the run. He's too lean.

If we didn't have Ware I could seem him for the WOLB position.

And I'm not big on his character either.

I think Silver came up with some better choices.