Grading the DE/OLB tweeners... I'm bored

[TheHustler]

Originally Posted by Rockytop6

Good work even if it leaves unanswered questions. Any formula will. Questions like:

Heart?
Instinct?
Intellect?
Functional Strength?
Intangibles?

Bob Lilly, Mr. Cowboy, did not have great weight room strength. I read an article many years ago about him that said however, he had excellent functional strength. Don't ask me to explain it.

the weight room doesn't necessarily work muscles you use in everyday life. i can bench press more than my brother can, but for all intents and purposes, he's stronger than i am.

[MichaelWinicki]

Originally Posted by Rockytop6

Good work even if it leaves unanswered questions. Any formula will. Questions like:

Heart?
Instinct?
Intellect?
Functional Strength?
Intangibles?

Bob Lilly, Mr. Cowboy, did not have great weight room strength. I read an article many years ago about him that said however, he had excellent functional strength. Don't ask me to explain it.

I guess I won't ask you to explain it but there is a famous story about him lifting the end of a VW Bug off of the ground. Maybe someone said that he didn't have great weight room strength because they don't have VW Bugs in a weight room.

[tomson75]

Originally Posted by Biggems

Should go no later than the 3rd, might make it into the 2nd

Well, while I think he has 2nd round talent, you'd be the first person I've heard of projecting him as such. His workouts may have bumped him to the third round, and I would still take him there, but the second is a bit of a reach. IMO. Robison is great though...he's got the talent, production, and the athleticism to boot.

[VACowboy]

Having seen a bunch of ACC football, I thing Baraka Atkins is going to be a steal. I'd love to see him selected in the third or so.

[MichaelWinicki]

Originally Posted by VACowboy

Having seen a bunch of ACC football, I thing Baraka Atkins is going to be a steal. I'd love to see him selected in the third or so.

I like Atkins too.

I'm not big on blowing another 1st round draft pick on an OLB. God almighty you choose another OLB with the first round draft pick and you create some real personnel issues with too many 1st round picks at OLB and not enough playing time.

Take a guy in anytime after round 2 and let him play situationally this year-- improve upon his weaknesses and if Ellis hangs'em up after '07 you have someone to step forward PROVIDED Carpenter doesn't become a fixture at the position-- which is distinctly possible.

In rounds 1 & 2 get us a CB and a WR (I don't care which order) and then start looking for a "tweener", a guard/center, a developmental QB, a TE, a NT, an ILB and maybe a FB.

[big dog cowboy]

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

In rounds 1 & 2 get us a CB and a WR (I don't care which order) and then start looking for a "tweener", a guard/center, a developmental QB, a TE, a NT, an ILB and maybe a FB.

[ENGCowboy]

I think Silverstar has chosen some good criteria without being an NFL scout has come up with a few players for a specific position on the Dallas Cowboys this is what Ireland talks about with his horizontal board. Some players better fit the scheme than others. I doubt SS thinks that Adams is a worse DL prospect than any of the others more that he just wont fit into the team as well

[AsthmaField]

Originally Posted by Rockytop6

Good work even if it leaves unanswered questions. Any formula will. Questions like:

Heart?
Instinct?
Intellect?
Functional Strength?
Intangibles?

Bob Lilly, Mr. Cowboy, did not have great weight room strength. I read an article many years ago about him that said however, he had excellent functional strength. Don't ask me to explain it.

Right. Those are vital to a players success. Just like the scheme they're getting drafted into plays a big part.

I remember reading an article in the early 1990's about Jimmy Johnson and how he looked at prospects. He said many things, but one of them that stuck with me was about contact.

Johnson said that contact is a huge part of the game and that you had better get players that not only don't mind the contact... but like it. His theory was that these guys are going to be having lots of contact nearly every day. Some guys simply don't really like the contact, and some do. He talked about one DL prospect who his (the player) college position coach said was really talented, but for some reason kind of shied away from real contact... tried to avoid the really big hits. He was a highly touted prospect, but Jimmy took him off of our draft board. Sure enough, the guy didn't pan out even though he was a high second round pick.

Jimmy would draft guys who relished the hitting. Who loved the contact. Johnson said that getting guys who liked the contact helped insure that they liked playing football and didn't mind mixing it up day after day.

I thought that was interesting at the time and I've always remembered it.

I think finding guys who like to play the game, who like the contact and physical nature of the sport is vital in finding players. Guys who put their heart and soul into the game and like to play and practice. Not guys who see the NFL as a way to get a big paycheck... but rather a chance to make a living doing something they love.

That, along with the things like football intelligence, instincts, etc. that you mentioned, really plays into how well a prospect turns out, IMO.

Of course, physical talent plays into it as well. However, if you have one guy a tad more talented but the other has the instincts, heart, smarts, etc., then I think you go with the slightly less talented guy with all the intangibles.

A good example of this would be Lavar Arrington and Brian Urlacher. Lavar had a slightly better 40 time than Brian, and his testing was overall a tad better (although both were really good). However, the slightly better 40 time of Arrington was more than negated by the fact that he will take more false steps and longer to diagnose a play than Urlacher. While Lavar might have a love for the game... Brian undeniably has a true passion for the sport and I think that shows in the way they play the game.

Several years since both were taken in the first round later, and Brian is everyone's all pro and Lavar is a talented guy who can't seem to play very well and continues to not play within the defensive schemes.

Anyway, that is simply one example. There are many. Phisical traits do mean something, but they clearly only tell half of the story. They say you can't teach speed... well you can't teach a guy to like contact or love the game either. You can't teach them to anticipate a play or have fun in practice.

There's just so much that goes into finding a good player. Sometimes I think a dartboard is the way to go.

[theogt]

Originally Posted by Bob Sacamano

I think being a good athlete and football player are equally important

So, why don't we go with the best of both worlds (underwear olympics and college play) -- Anthony Spencer!!!

[Silverstar]

Originally Posted by theogt

So, why don't we go with the best of both worlds (underwear olympics and college play) -- Anthony Spencer!!!

I'm ok with that, just not in the 1st round!

That's why I like the idea of drafting a Baraka Atkins or a Jay Moore on the second day, because I think they will still be on the board. Adams and Spencer are fine prospects, but will they able to transition to the 3-4 SOLB position any better than Atkins or Moore?

I'd have to say, the learning curve is about equal for any DE who has never played standing up.

[theogt]

Originally Posted by Silverstar

I'm ok with that, just not in the 1st round!

That's why I like the idea of drafting a Baraka Atkins or a Jay Moore on the second day, because I think they will still be on the board. Adams and Spencer are fine prospects, but will they able to transition to the 3-4 SOLB position any better than Atkins or Moore?

I'd have to say, the learning curve is about equal for any DE who has never played standing up.

Ehh...those Purdue DEs pretty much come out prepared to play right way. Spencer will be a polished pass-rusher immediately. He'll have 8+ sacks in his rookie season.