Mel Kipers Big Board???

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Originally Posted by Hostile

I'm going to be honest, this debate always cracks me up. These draft guys go to a lot of trouble to weigh these players and figure out where they rank and create a Mock Draft for the fans to read and consider. It's for your enjoyment. That's it. It isn't meant to be a 100% bulletproof lock of what is going to happen.

It amuses me and amazes me how they "don't know anything and should be ignored" in the minds of so many. Someone, make that anyone, tell me who had Donte Whitner going to the Bills at #8 last year. Can anyone produce even one Draft prognosticator who had that?

Hell no you can't. Know why? Because these guys do not work for NFL teams and are not privy to what they feel are their biggest needs and biggest desires. They simply do the best they can to provide the information for fan entertainment.

[View Full Quote]Translation...how these guys do on Mock Drafts is irrelevant to how good they are at what they do. Completely irrelevant. I admire when someone has a good Mock as much as the next guy. A bad mock does NOTHING to discredit any of these guys. The value of what they do lies not in a Mock Draft, but in their scouting reports of the players selected.

Anyone who wants to tell me that Kiper doesn't do a good job there, and all of the other guys too, is out of their freaking minds. The hours that they put into research and analysis without the benefit of direct phone lines to the 32 teams is hard work and it is staggering to think about.

I repeat, for your ENTERTAINMENT. The sooner that knowledge penetrates some rock hard craniums the better. I do not mean this to be a shot at anybody. If you don't like Kiper, don't like him. But for the love of Pete stop basing it on a Mock Draft.

Mock people, Mock. Do I need to define the friggin' word for you?

Actually im pretty sure that the guy from PFW had whitner going to the bills.

[EGG]

When your business is professing your educated opinion on a topic for which EVERYBODY has an opinion(educated or otherwise) you're gonna be targeted for ridicule and disagreed with. I have no particular dislike for Kiper, but I have no sympathy for him either,,, part of his draft day schtick is ridiculing and disagreeing with the choices teams make, and they should know better than him what they're looking for in a player. So it's all par for the course.

FWIW, I like hearing Kiper's breakdown of players because his information is pretty close to what all the scouts have. Goose too. In the end though, it's still a crapshoot!

[5mics]

Originally Posted by CowboyMike

You mean people still think Mel Kiper knows a darn about the draft?

But you have to give the man credit, he STILL has that great hair after all these years.....

[5mics]

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Actually im pretty sure that the guy from PFW had whitner going to the bills.

I think Chris Berman's taxi-driver also had Whitner going to the Bills.....

[CrazyCowboy]

Kiper does put a lot of work in this draft

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Actually im pretty sure that the guy from PFW had whitner going to the bills.

Not doubting you Fuzz, but I'd like to see evidence of it.

It really doesn't change my stance that Mocks are just for entertainment purposes and the true value of what these guys do lies in the profiles.

Originally Posted by 5mics

I think Chris Berman's taxi-driver also had Whitner going to the Bills.....

I remember Berman babbling about a tip from a Taxi driver, was that Whitner and last year? Hard to recall because I was there and listening through headphones.

[Big Country]

Main Entry: mock
Pronunciation: 'mäk, 'mok
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from moker
transitive verb

1 : to treat with contempt or ridicule : DERIDE
2 : to disappoint the hopes of
3 : DEFY, CHALLENGE
4 a : to imitate (as a mannerism) closely : MIMIC b : to mimic in sport or derision

intransitive verb : JEER, SCOFF
synonym see RIDICULE, COPY
- mock·er noun
- mock·ing·ly /'mä-ki[ng]-lE, 'mo-/ adverb

[thundercowboy]

Kiper's evaluation of players is what we all like. He'd have to be a mind reader to know what the teams are actually going to pick or have inside scoop.

[5mics]

Originally Posted by Hostile

I remember Berman babbling about a tip from a Taxi driver, was that Whitner and last year? Hard to recall because I was there and listening through headphones.

Yup, if I remember correctly. Every year there is always a "taxi driver" who correctly picks the Bills 1st rounder.....

[StarPower]

[quote=EGG;1449193]When your business is professing your educated opinion on a topic for which EVERYBODY has an opinion(educated or otherwise) you're gonna be targeted for ridicule and disagreed with. I have no particular dislike for Kiper, but I have no sympathy for him either,,, part of his draft day schtick is ridiculing and disagreeing with the choices teams make, and they should know better than him what they're looking for in a player. So it's all par for the course.

FWIW, I like hearing Kiper's breakdown of players because his information is pretty close to what all the scouts have. Goose too. In the end though, it's still a crapshoot! [/quot

Dead on.

My big beef with kiper is that his big board is so fluid in the months after the season when not one game gets played. I understand kids go thru senior bowl/combine etc...but he has (for example) Reggie Nelson at like 11 a couple months ago, and now he has dropped out of the 25??? What did he do besides run an avg 40 at the combine and a sub 4.4 at Fla's proday? And Ginn jumps into top ten and he has done NOTHING cause he's been hurt.

Its such a bunch of %$#@. He is supposed to watch these kids play games all fall. If he thinks a kid is top 15, then maybe i can see some SLIGHT movement after interviews, workouts, etc. But to fluctuate like 20 spots...load of bull.

I wouldnt feel so passionately about it if Mel was just doing a mock, b/c team needs change. But he is ranking these prospects. Load of Bull. He has become just as much about controversy and self promotion as he has about providing us draftnerds with honest prospect evalutation.

[junk]

Originally Posted by Hostile

It amuses me and amazes me how they "don't know anything and should be ignored" in the minds of so many. Someone, make that anyone, tell me who had Donte Whitner going to the Bills at #8 last year. Can anyone produce even one Draft prognosticator who had that?

Mayock called that on the NFL Network the night before the draft. Not sure if he actually thought that or was just hearing some buzz around league circles. I don't think he had him that high anytime before then.

I remember laughing at him when he said it.

Edit:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9403416

[junk]

Top 25 Big Board

1. Calvin Johnson*, WR, Georgia Tech (6-4, 225) | previous: Same
He's not only a tremendous athlete, but he's a hard worker and very team oriented. Based on the needs of the Raiders and Lions, Johnson might not be the No. 1 overall pick, but he won't fall out of the top five.

2. Joe Thomas, OT, Wisconsin (6-6½, 313) | previous: Same
Huge, quick and athletic with a long wingspan.

3. Adrian Peterson*, RB, Oklahoma (6-1½, 218) | previous: Same
The most talented running back in the draft with an excellent burst to the outside for his size. The concern with Peterson is his durability.

4. JaMarcus Russell*, QB, LSU (6-6, 260) | previous: Same
Big, strong signal caller with a powerful arm, and his decision-making improved significantly in 2006.

5. Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame (6-3½, 225) | previous: Same
Poised, smart and at his best in pressure situations. Quinn did throw two interceptions in the Sugar Bowl after throwing just one INT in his previous eight games.

6. LaRon Landry, DB, LSU (6-1½, 205) | previous: Same
Four-year starter who has proven to be Mr. Reliable throughout his career.

7. Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville (6-1½, 298) | previous: Same
A four-year veteran, and he is only 19 years old. Okoye is quick and explosive and goes all-out on every play. He is not only good at eating up space but also gets good penetration into the backfield.

8. Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson (6-4½, 260) | previous: Same
Flashes dominating ability with his athleticism and quickness. Adams led the Tigers with 10½ sacks and 15½ tackles for loss.

9. Leon Hall, CB, Michigan (5-11, 193) | previous: Same
Tough customer who also shows very good anticipation and awareness in coverage.

10. Ted Ginn Jr.*, WR, Ohio State (5-11, 175) | previous: 22
Takes a backseat to no one in the speed department, brings a big-play dimension to the wide receiver position and also the return game.

11. Greg Olsen*, Miami, TE (6-5, 254) | previous: 12
His performance at the combine should move Olsen up to the middle of the first round. Great hands and very athletic, Olsen reminds me of Baltimore Ravens tight end Todd Heap.

12. Levi Brown, OT, Penn St. (6-4½, 325) | previous: 10
Steady and reliable at protecting the quarterback's blind side.

13. Joe Staley, OT, Central Michigan (6-5½, 300) | previous: 21
He's a former tight end who has developed into a natural left tackle. Staley brings incredible footwork, athleticism and agility to the position.

14. Dwayne Jarrett*, WR, USC (6-4, 210) | previous: 11
Has the size and natural receiving skills to create mismatches against smaller cornerbacks. Jarrett also has better quickness out of his break than people give him credit for.

15. Patrick Willis, LB, Mississippi (6-2, 235) | previous: 17
Tackling machine with great football sense. Willis lead the Rebels with 137 tackles (87 solo).

16. Jamaal Anderson*, DE, Arkansas (6-5, 270) | previous: 13
A gifted athlete who is coming off an exceptional 2006 season. Anderson is a complete player, equally solid against the run and as a pass rusher.

17. Adam Carriker, DE, Nebraska (6-6, 298) | previous: 14
You don't see many defensive ends carrying 300 pounds who can move as well as Carriker.

18. Justin Harrell, DT, Tennessee (6-4 ¼, 302) | previous: 16
Prior to going down with a season-ending injury (torn biceps), Harrell was performing at the level you would expect from a first-round draft pick.

19. Dwayne Bowe, WR, LSU (6-2, 217) | previous: 15
Big and productive, Bowe runs excellent routes and has the toughness to catch the ball in traffic.

20. Marshawn Lynch*, RB, California (5-11, 224) | previous: 15
Complete big back, right on the heels of Adrian Peterson when it comes to who will be the top RB in the draft.

21. Ben Grubbs, OG, Auburn (6-3, 300) | previous: 18
A versatile athlete who started his career at defensive tackle and then shifted to tight end. Grubbs brings a great deal of athletic ability to the interior of the offensive line.

22. Steve Smith, WR, USC (5-11½, 198) | previous: 17
Sure-haneded and faster than advertised at the combine (4.44 40-yard dash). Smith is one of the best receivers at doing damage after the catch.

23. Robert Meachem*, WR, Tennessee (6-2½, 210) | previous: Unranked
Came through with a number of highlight-film plays in 2006. Meachem's stock has been on the rise leading up to the draft.

24. Jarvis Moss*, DE, Florida (6-5, 250) | previous: Unranked
Speed rusher who is also excellent in pursuit, using his lateral quickness to chase down running plays before they can amount to anything.

25. Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn St. (6-1½, 235) | previous: Unranked
A productive and consistent player who studies and prepares as thoroughly as anybody.

Dropped
Ryan Kalil, C, USC (6-3, 285) | previous: 23
Game improved dramatically thanks in part to facing great competition in practice.

Eric Weddle, DB, Utah (5-11¼, 205) | previous: 24
Makes his debut on the Big Board after a standout senior season for the Utes. An incredibly intelligent player, Weddle has the versatility to play either cornerback or safety.

Lawrence Timmons*, LB, Florida St. (6-2¼, 233) | previous: 25
Moves right to the top of a very subpar linebacking group, particularly from the senior class. Timmons' production and consistency from game to game are what jumps out at you.

[big dog cowboy]

Originally Posted by StarPower

My big beef with kiper is that his big board is so fluid in the months after the season when not one game gets played.

combine, pro day, wonderlic, juniors declaring, personal interviews, off field troubles........stuff happens you know.

[StarPower]

Originally Posted by big dog cowboy

combine, pro day, wonderlic, juniors declaring, personal interviews, off field troubles........stuff happens you know.

I understand that, and thats why i said i understand that the big board will fluctuate. But to fluctuate like 25 spots, when the kids gameplay resume is the exact same as it was when you had him at like 8 a month ago, its just too much.

I think that Mel falls victim to (and is himself) the HYPE. I dont want that from his big board, his hype - (so and so talked to some teams scout and they rated this guy very high so mel takes that into account and so on. just give me your eval) I can get hype on any draft website. Like I said, i would prefer a mock draft from him if he is gonna be THAT fluid.

[big dog cowboy]

Originally Posted by StarPower

But to fluctuate like 25 spots, when the kids gameplay resume is the exact same as it was when you had him at like 8 a month ago, its just too much.

Sorry chief, that is just the way it is. He works for ESPN and you and I only wish we had that much power.