Guantanamo Bay (dention camp) thoughts - Dallas Cowboys Forum

locked&loaded · 07-19-2007

Id like to find what everyone thinks of it.

Personally i think its disgusting and should be shut down asap (now).

sacase · 07-19-2007

For what? How is it disgusting? Do you have first hand knowledge of what it is like?

locked&loaded · 07-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacase

For what? How is it disgusting? Do you have first hand knowledge of what it is like?

sorry man, do you live in a hole? Their have been complaints of torture, mistreatment, embarrassing procedures etc. ring a bell? And the excuse they have is.... its not on american soil. Which is a complete joke.

bbgun · 07-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by locked&loaded

sorry man, do you live in a hole? Their have been complaints of torture, mistreatment, embarrassing procedures etc. ring a bell? And the excuse they have is.... its not on american soil. Which is a complete joke.

Welcome to Al Qaeda talking points night. Your understanding of the threat posed by the enemy and the will needed to defeat them is positively childlike. Gitmo is the only incarceration facility where prisoners leave fatter and in better overall health. It's practically Club Med for terrorists. Just out of curiosity, where do you want us to detain battlefield jihadists? Orlando?

sacase · 07-19-2007

Right, well I am sure there are a couple people on this board who have been there and they can tell you what it is really like. like the detainee's not wanting to leave and them gaining weight because they are eating better than they ever have.

I am not trying to be rude at all, I am just saying that Gitmo is not that bad on those guys. Most of the guys there hard hard core dudes would would love nothing more than to kill every american they see, many of the detainee's that we have released have been killed or arrested again in Afghanistan.

Personally I don't consider stress positions and sleep deprivation mistreatment, hell anyone who has been through basic training suffers from that! We go out of our way to accomidate their religeon, something they would never do for us. Last time I looked we were not the ones cutting people's heads off with dull machete's.

iceberg · 07-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by locked&loaded

sorry man, do you live in a hole? Their have been complaints of torture, mistreatment, embarrassing procedures etc. ring a bell? And the excuse they have is.... its not on american soil. Which is a complete joke.

ever know a prisoner of war (or any other kind really) to go "no, things are great here, i'm thinking up new terrorist plots just so i can stay around".

the koran that got "peed" upon - we gave those to them. would we get the same amount of consideration in a terrorist prison camp? no, they lob heads off with spoons.

no one is advocating torture that i know of but we do need to back off the extreme that guantamo is such a terrible place. would it even rank in the top 20 of "roughest prison camps of all time"?

iceberg · 07-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbgun

Welcome to Al Qaeda talking points night. Your understanding of the threat posed by the enemy and the will needed to defeat them is positively childlike. Gitmo is the only incarceration facility where prisoners leave fatter and in better overall health. It's practically Club Med for terrorists. Just out of curiosity, where do you want us to detain battlefield jihadists? Orlando?

there's a spot in idaho we can slip 'em in.

on one hand people yell at bush cause we're not protecting the border so terrorists can just walk on through.

yet on the other hand, let's bring 'em in ourselves and let our judicial system set 'em free then our rehab department get 'em a job at a flight school.

Crown Royal · 07-19-2007

I'm curious to know how much of the torture was in isolated incident and how much is common place.

AtlCB · 07-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

I'm curious to know how much of the torture was in isolated incident and how much is common place.

A lot of the accusations came from an Amnesty International report that was later debunked. Independant investigators discovered that Amnesty International's investigation comprised of only interviews with the inmates. Many of the inmates contradicted each other and some couldn't even replicate their stories when they were asked to repeat them months later in the seperate investigation.

Amnesty International had a political agenda. The international organization has been at odds with the U.S. for years over our use of the death penalty.

burmafrd · 07-20-2007

Any way you look at it we treat our prisoners a whole lot better then Al Queda does. No real short haircuts at Gitmo.

Rackat · 07-20-2007

We provide culturally correct meals.

We allow the Quoran.

We allow them to continue their religious practices.

Our guards have to put up with feces and urine being thrown at them, as well as being spit upon. The prisoners have threatened the guard's families, and the guards themselves that when they get out, they will hunt them down.

Of the prisoners that have been released, there have been multiple incidences of them being recaptured, or killed, on the battlefield in Iraq and Afghanistan.

All of this while our politicians argue about the prisoner's "rights".

How many of them have we executed?

On the other hand, our forces are treated to horrid treatment in back rooms. They are then summarily executed in a most inhumane way. Usually by cutting off their head with a machete or a large knife. The best our captured soldiers can hope for is that the knife is sharp enough that the execution is relatively quick.

Torture? Ask John McCain about torture. Ask Admiral John Stockdale about torture. Waterboarding and scaring the **** out of them with dogs or draping women's clothing on them is not torture. Even wiring their testicles is not torture, because they didn't carry through. It may scare the hell out of them, but it isn't torture.

I was in Somalia in 1992/93. I saw the Islamic fanatics kill those that opposed them. Even though the people they were killing were Islamic and Somalian. There was no trial, there was no commuted sentence, there was nothing but a swift death. They do this to their "own" people. What would they do to you?

03EBZ06 · 07-20-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rackat

We provide culturally correct meals.

We allow the Quoran.

We allow them to continue their religious practices.

Our guards have to put up with feces and urine being thrown at them, as well as being spit upon. The prisoners have threatened the guard's families, and the guards themselves that when they get out, they will hunt them down.

Of the prisoners that have been released, there have been multiple incidences of them being recaptured, or killed, on the battlefield in Iraq and Afghanistan.

All of this while our politicians argue about the prisoner's "rights".

How many of them have we executed?

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Well said and I totally agree with your post.

Those captives are treated humanly unlike how our soldiers are treated. What OP stated is nothing more than what some believes, not factual, which is being dishonest.

burmafrd · 07-20-2007

locked and loaded is obviously a drinker of the far left cool aid. Sadly all too many have done that.

**BrAinPaiNt** · 07-20-2007

I have no first hand knowledge and have not read any credible reports of the torture at Gitmo.

I will say I think there probably are things that have or do happen but I doubt it is on a regular basis...in other words I would imagine it is isolated incidents.

I think the ones they want to torture and the like are the ones that are shuttled to different countries in "torture taxis".

It is hard to say that the US does not torture as we have seen the whole Abu Ghraib situation.

I just happen to think they do it elsewhere when it is done.

Personally I have a feeling that Gitmo, at least the detention centers there, will be shut down within the next couple years. I would imagine it would be after the next president is in office.

I think they will just use facilities in other countries.

I question the admin for what I think is circumventing the geneva convention code at times which by doing so is against our constitution.

The line that they are much worse to our troops does not hold water as WE are part of the geneva convention code. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard and honor our agreements and laws. We should not bring ourselves down to their levels.

However as I said I think IF it happens at gitmo it is an isolated instances and you can not always control when a soldiers gets stressed out and does something stupid.
Does not mean the soldier is off the hook for actions but it is not something that is mandated through his chain of command.

So. I think gitmo is ok but I also feel they are going to close those centers down, move them to foreign areas and that by doing so they can get away with more things without as much accountability.

What we do, even if we torture, is still MUCH better than the treatment our soldiers would get from the enemy. However it still does not justify torture because we are held by a higher standards and by the Geneva Convention code and the constitution.

We will see.

iceberg · 07-20-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

I have no first hand knowledge and have not read any credible reports of the torture at Gitmo.

I will say I think there probably are things that have or do happen but I doubt it is on a regular basis...in other words I would imagine it is isolated incidents.

I think the ones they want to torture and the like are the ones that are shuttled to different countries in "torture taxis".

It is hard to say that the US does not torture as we have seen the whole Abu Ghraib situation.

I just happen to think they do it elsewhere when it is done.

Personally I have a feeling that Gitmo, at least the detention centers there, will be shut down within the next couple years. I would imagine it would be after the next president is in office.

I think they will just use facilities in other countries.

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agreed. but i also feel if our enemies won't play by these rules, we need to come out and publically say we won't either. otherwise you create handcuffs for your efforts and give them a blueprint on how to kick your tail all over the place. and they've done it.

but i do agree we need to publically remove ourselves from it *in this war only* and we'll fight on any terms we have to fight in order to win. i want to be noble, i want to be proud, i want to be the good guy, but i also want to be free and not have islam thrown down my gullet simply because we took the high road in this war and they blew it out from under us.

i don't believe there is ever a "clean" war and never will be. i do agree we are a better people and i do agree there are methods we should never resort to - such as killing on the internet and various others - child bombs, yada yada.

but i don't agree we should follow a rulebook when the other side just laughs at it. it's like watching a grade b movie where the fbi follows the "anti - terrorist code" and they count on it and plan for it.

never saw bruce willis follow the book. : )