This Will Stop War in the Middle East!

[Vintage]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6920458.stm

The United States is reported to be preparing a major arms deal with Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states worth $20bn (£9.8bn) over the next decade.


Defence officials quoted by US media said the sales would include advanced weaponry, missile guidance systems, upgraded fighter jets and naval ships.
It is said to be an attempt to counter the regional threat posed by Iran.
The officials said the secretaries of state and defence would discuss the deal on a visit to the Gulf next week.

However, discussions with Congress on the arms package have just begun, and no announcements are expected during the visit, the officials added.

Israeli 'concern'
On Saturday, the New York Times and the Washington Post quoted unnamed senior US officials as saying the Bush administration was preparing to an arms sale package for a number of US allies in the Gulf.
[View Full Quote]The proposed deal for Saudi Arabia reportedly includes air-to-air missiles, advanced precision-guided bombs, upgrades to its fighters and new naval vessels.

The role of the Sunni Arab neighbours is to send a positive, affirmative message to moderates in Iraq in government that the neighbours are with you


US State Department official


To counter objections by Israel and its supporters in Congress, the officials said the Jewish state would be offered significantly increased military aid.
The White House is also said to be concerned that the package may prompt critics of the Saudi government in Congress to oppose it because of concerns about the kingdom's influence in Iraq.

Other US allies in the Gulf - Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates - could receive equipment and weaponry as part of the deal, the officials said

The officials said the arms deal aimed to bolster the militaries of the Sunni Arab states as part of a strategy to counter what it sees as a growing threat posed by Iran in the region.

"The role of the Sunni Arab neighbours is to send a positive, affirmative message to moderates in Iraq in government that the neighbours are with you," a senior State Department official told the New York Times on Friday.
Defence Secretary Robert Gates is said to be planning to discuss the proposals in a visit to Saudi Arabia next week with the Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice.
Officials said Mr Gates would also reassure the Saudis that his country's commitment to the region remained steadfast regardless of what happens in Iraq in the short term.

[BrAinPaiNt]

And the beat goes on.

How many times in the past have we propped, supported, funded or given weapons to people in the middle east only for it to wind up biting us in the butt years later?

Will we ever learn?

[Vintage]

Nothing sends a positive, affirmative messaage moreso than a $20B weapons deal.

We are about freedom?

Yet, we continue to turn a blind eye to Saudi Arabia and their treatment of women. Saudi Arabia is about as Democratic as Iraq was under Hussein.

Nothing counters regional threats (from Iran) like supplying the other side with huge amounts of weaponry. Assuming Iran is a rational actor (which, would be assuming too much), this is going to go over like a Lead Zeppelin.

When we do finally pull out of Iraq, the Middle East is going to be VERY interesting in terms of the subsequent months after. Iran is positioning itself. Saudi Arabia is doing the same. And in the middle of this, Israel stands.

But I am an equal opportunity basher.

I fully believe the Democrats can **** this up more if they try.

[Vintage]

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

And the beat goes on.

How many times in the past have we propped, supported, funded or given weapons to people in the middle east only for it to wind up biting us in the butt years later?

Will we ever learn?

Iran, Afganistan, Iraq (possibly in the future).....

No.

I'd say status quo remains.

[Sasquatch]

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

And the beat goes on.

How many times in the past have we propped, supported, funded or given weapons to people in the middle east only for it to wind up biting us in the butt years later?

Will we ever learn?

It's bidness, kid. No offense.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Originally Posted by The_Jackal

It's bidness, kid. No offense.

As Gravel would say...follow the money.

[Vintage]

Originally Posted by The_Jackal

It's bidness, kid. No offense.

I understand. And while your short reply was, well, short, it does have true merit behind it.

However, at some point, you have to look at the business you are doing and realize what the true costs/benefits are.

We armed Afghanistan against the Soviets. Those same arms were used against us.

Yeah, we made a profit back then. But at what cost, today?

Was is truly worth it?

That's all brainpaint and I were getting at.

[AtlCB]

This is a really bad idea! I don't think Iran is really a big threat. Who have they invaded?

[Sasquatch]

Originally Posted by Vintage

I understand. And while your short reply was, well, short, it does have true merit behind it.

However, at some point, you have to look at the business you are doing and realize what the true costs/benefits are.

We armed Afghanistan against the Soviets. Those same arms were used against us.

Yeah, we made a profit back then. But at what cost, today?

Was is truly worth it?

That's all brainpaint and I were getting at.

I was being facetious with a mock mafioso voice.

[Vintage]

Originally Posted by AtlCB

This is a really bad idea! I don't think Iran is really a big threat. Who have they invaded?

Its not so much what they've done lately in regards to invading.

Its much more disconcerting when Ahmadinejad talks about pushing Israel back into the ocean.

Or Iran's suspected nuclear weapons program.

Or that they being overwhelmingly Shiia. And Iran could be interested in arming/interfering with Iraq in trying to prop up the Shiites for control in Iraq. Or given Iraq-Iran's history, an attempted takeover.

[Vintage]

Originally Posted by The_Jackal

I was being facetious with a mock mafioso voice.

My bad. I thought you were being serious.

Though, even in jest, your counterpoint was valid and worthy of a response.

[windward]

Originally Posted by Vintage

Its not so much what they've done lately in regards to invading.

Its much more disconcerting when Ahmadinejad talks about pushing Israel back into the ocean.

Or Iran's suspected nuclear weapons program.

Or that they being overwhelmingly Shiia. And Iran could be interested in arming/interfering with Iraq in trying to prop up the Shiites for control in Iraq. Or given Iraq-Iran's history, an attempted takeover.

I'm not entirely sure that Ahmadinejad is not just ful of bluster. At any rate, he's becoming increasingly unpopular in Iran not just among young students but with members of Iran's Parliament. I doubt he wins another term in office. A more moderate leader will take power (not too moderate or pro-west, the ayatollahs and mullahs will see to that.)

[Vintage]

One thing I would like to add, is that the U.S. is doing this as a counter to Russia selling arms to Iran.

The U.S. is trying to increase the military strength of those who'd resist against Iranian aggression, and as a result, is selling them to Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Furthermore, the US has agreed to increase aid to Israel in their defense. Israel has signed off on this (naturally) and as a result is in agreement with the US plans to sell to Saudi Arabia/Egypt.

http://www.ajn.com.au/news/news.asp?pgID=3837

I still stand with my belief that simply arming people isn't the best way to go about peace. But perhaps I was a bit too hasty in my dismissal of this. Its probably needed seeing as how you can't negotiate with irrational actors, such as Iran.

Either way, this, while probably needed, does cast a foretelling tale of likely conflict in the future.

[iceberg]

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

And the beat goes on.

How many times in the past have we propped, supported, funded or given weapons to people in the middle east only for it to wind up biting us in the butt years later?

Will we ever learn?

i think we just need to walk away from that area for awhile. buy our oil and let them do whatever the hell they wanna do to each other.

[Vintage]

Originally Posted by iceberg

i think we just need to walk away from that area for awhile. buy our oil and let them do whatever the hell they wanna do to each other.

Well, for starters, you'd have Iran probably invading Iraq. And then Saudi would invade Iraq and fight Iran.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Syria (which is nothing more than a puppet government of Iran) would probably mount something in the form of a terrorist type plot against Israel.

Funded by Iran.

Mass War in the Middle East is something I would not like to witness in my lifetime, preferably.