Revisit DE...opinions changed?

[SDogo]

Originally Posted by UncFelix28

SDogo, what would your plan be with Acho? Hopefully Carter is ready to go next season. Would your plan be to move Carter to OLB or just drafting Acho to come in on 3rd down-ST's? Just trying to get in your head

Purely looking for depth and someone who can develop into a starter. This team has none of it at either ILB or OLB. Acho has the makeup to become a sensational pass rusher early in his career in a reserve roll. I like the idea of moving Carter to OLB and I'm not buying the size argument. All OLB's in a 3-4 don't need to be 260+ pounds. It's a terrible myth and needs to be put to rest.

[SDogo]

Originally Posted by junk

How many has Ware had over the years with his hand on the ground? How many times does Ware walk up on the line in a 3-4? If he drops his hand on the ground, is he playing a 3-4 end?

In Nickel and Dime fronts, it's pretty common to go to 4 man fronts or have your OLBs put their hand on the ground.

Just because he puts his hand on the ground occasionally that doesn't mean he is playing a 3-4 end position. Not going to be very effective at 267 pounds.

I'm not sure what your leading to.....if you lineup at DE with your hand on the ground or not in any given formation your playing DE in that instance.

It's part of the beauty of a 3-4, even NT in today's schemes is not really just a NT. Look at all the different formations Rob uses, heck sometimes I'm not even sure you can directly label the positions in regards to a traditional set in stone 3-4 alignment.

[casmith07]

Originally Posted by TheCoolFan

The problem is that it's hard to find the "right" 3-4 DE that can rush the passer too. What are the odds that they take someone and he turns into a Marcus Spears, Glenn Dorsey, Tyson Jackson, etc?

I'd be fine if he turns into Marcus Spears. Spears pushes the pocket and occupies at least two blockers a lot of the time.

Would free up Ratliff for more 1 on 1s with Ware getting doubled/tripled all the time.

But we need a smaller, athletic end. A guy Ware's size or Spencer's size with the speed.

Hell, convert Spencer back to DE.

[SDogo]

Originally Posted by casmith07

I'd be fine if he turns into Marcus Spears. Spears pushes the pocket and occupies at least two blockers a lot of the time.

Would free up Ratliff for more 1 on 1s with Ware getting doubled/tripled all the time.

But we need a smaller, athletic end. A guy Ware's size or Spencer's size with the speed.

Hell, convert Spencer back to DE.

Interesting

I like the line of thinking though.

[junk]

Originally Posted by SDogo

I'm not sure what your leading to.....if you lineup at DE with your hand on the ground or not in any given formation your playing DE in that instance.

It's part of the beauty of a 3-4, even NT in today's schemes is not really just a NT. Look at all the different formations Rob uses, heck sometimes I'm not even sure you can directly label the positions in regards to a traditional set in stone 3-4 alignment.

You might be better served to say you want more pass rushers. You might not "get blasted" as much if you phrased it that way.

This all goes back to the basic tenets of the 3-4 and what the roles and responsibilities are in that base defense.

In that base defense, a 3-4 end is primarily tasked with controlling the LOS while a 3-4 linebacker is your pass rusher. Can you have 3, 4 or 5 man fronts in a 3-4? Sure. Can you have a variety of looks? Sure. Can the players in that defense have different gap responsibilities and roles depending upon the formation and play call? Sure. Rob Ryan does a lot of that.....not very successfully....but he does do a lot of that.

But if Ware walks up on the line and puts his hand on the ground, it doesn't suddenly turn into a 4-3 and he doesn't suddenly become a DE. In that case, would Spears or Hatcher be a 3-4 DT since they have their hand on the ground and are covered up?

I'm sure everyone would like to have great pass rushing 3-4 ends. However, they are difficult to find. Partially because it is hard to find someone that can provide strong run support at the LOS and rush the passer consistently and partially because they often aren't tasked with rushing the passer.

Bottom line: Ryan Kerrigan and J.J. Watt are completely different players and skill sets. If Kerrigan was in Dallas, he'd play Spencer's spot, not Hatcher or Spears. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone call him a 3-4 end.

Does Dallas need more pass rush? Yes. Can it come from the 3-4 end position? Sure, if the defense is set up that way and you find the right guy. However, if I had my choice between a 3-4 end and an upgrade to Spencer's spot, I'd take the upgrade at Spencer's spot first.

[InmanRoshi]

We desperately need to improve the speed, athleticism and versatility of the defensive front 7. There isn't just one position that needs to be upgraded. The entire unit is slow and lacks athleticism. While everyone else is infatuated with the idea of getting some fat guy to play NT and moving Ratliff to DE, I would be more focused on getting smaller and faster. I would cascade players inside to improve the overall speed of the unit. Moving Spears inside full time, moving Spencer to DE and getting an athletic OLB is more in line of what I'm thinking.

[SDogo]

Originally Posted by junk

Does Dallas need more pass rush? Yes. Can it come from the 3-4 end position? Sure, if the defense is set up that way and you find the right guy. However, if I had my choice between a 3-4 end and an upgrade to Spencer's spot, I'd take the upgrade at Spencer's spot first.

I noted what you said and to a degree I'm going to go with the agree to disagree route

With that said, I would prefer a Kerrigan type over a flat out replacement for Spencer. Not that it matters this year because that guy simply is not in this draft. sooo........by default I too would rather replace Spencer at this point.

[junk]

Originally Posted by SDogo

I noted what you said and to a degree I'm going to go with the agree to disagree route

With that said, I would prefer a Kerrigan type over a flat out replacement for Spencer. Not that it matters this year because that guy simply is not in this draft. sooo........by default I too would rather replace Spencer at this point.

I guess that falls under the "agree to disagree" part because Kerrigan would be a replacement for Spencer. That is the position he would play. Not Spears, not Hatchers. He'd be an OLB, not with his hand in the dirt in a 3man front.

I think you'll get a lot of funny looks, not just from me, if you call Kerrigan a 3-4 end including from the Redskins HC.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/sp...136048228.html

Impressive numbers -- especially considering Kerrigan is still learning the linebacker position after playing 4-3 defensive end at Purdue.

“You don’t see too many rookies that handle themselves like he does, especially guys that go from defensive end that were a normal defensive end in college to a linebacker position in the pros,” Shanahan said.

[SDogo]

Originally Posted by junk

I guess that falls under the "agree to disagree" part because Kerrigan would be a replacement for Spencer. That is the position he would play. Not Spears, not Hatchers. He'd be an OLB, not with his hand in the dirt in a 3man front.

I think you'll get a lot of funny looks, not just from me, if you call Kerrigan a 3-4 end including from the Redskins HC.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/sp...136048228.html

Agree to disagree...if he lines up at DE for a majority of his snaps he is playing DE.

Simple terminology disagreement.

[UncFelix28]

what about Chandler Jones from Syracuse? What kinda stock does he have right now, I would definitely take him in the 2nd or 3rd.. Not sure where he will fall, but I watched a couple of Cuse games this year & he impressed me at times

[SDogo]

Originally Posted by UncFelix28

what about Chandler Jones from Syracuse? What kinda stock does he have right now, I would definitely take him in the 2nd or 3rd.. Not sure where he will fall, but I watched a couple of Cuse games this year & he impressed me at times

Interesting name, not a lot of fan fare or media attention.

Playing for Syracuse probably does not help but he missed 5 games this past season and it hurt his numbers. He was productive when on the field. At one point and this may come as a shock to some he had a pretty secure 1st round grade if he decided to come out. I think he settles somewhere in round 2 at this point but he is someone no one is talking about.

He has great technique and plays with power. Also very fluid for a big guy. I don't see a lot of Pro-Bowl caliber potential with him but I think he will have a long productive career in the NFL and is the type of guy teams need on a roster.

[casmith07]

Originally Posted by SDogo

Interesting

I like the line of thinking though.

Spencer runs into problems when we ask him to do linebacker things.

Have him line up and put his hand down and just beat the guy in front of him. Line up Ware behind him at OLB - who you gonna block?

[RS12]

DE would have to be a difference maker like Ingram. Pass rush has to be priority one.

[VACowboy]

SD, I just noticed the mock in your sig. I LOVE your first four picks and the Shea McClellin selection. Now, if you could work Derek Wolf in there somehow and replace Davis with Matt Daniels, it'd be perfect.

[SDogo]

Originally Posted by VACowboy

SD, I just noticed the mock in your sig. I LOVE your first four picks and the Shea McClellin selection. Now, if you could work Derek Wolf in there somehow and replace Davis with Matt Daniels, it'd be perfect.

Glad McClellin rings a bell with someone. The kid is a player and just flat out productive. Not to mention he knows how to find a QB!