Bunting NFP Big Board Top 30 - Page 2 - Dallas Cowboys Forum

egn22 · 01-10-2012

lol, i like reading bunting's reports. He's one of the only guys online who's information stays current. last year he was spot on with the Tyron Smith thing when even our local media swore Amukumara was a lock for us. I don't care if he took an online certification or what, you can't really knock the guy's hustle. he's watching tape, and providing a very good analysis for fans like us.

**ABQCOWBOY** · 01-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

I have never big a big fan of Buntings, and with him having RG3 falling is just an example of that reason. After the year he had and that bowl game, why would he be falling.

Devon Still at 9 you have to be joking me, the guy is off and on way to much to be that high.

Kendell Wright one behind Blackmon sorry but they aren't that close together.

Barron at 13 is a joke, the guy is way over rated, he is a zone in the box SS and can only play in a tampa 2 defense.

Amini Silatolu in the top 25, wow.

I was afraid of this. Silatolu is the guy I would like the Cowboys to look at in this draft. I was hoping he might be around in the 3rd but he may not me.

burmafrd · 01-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryDaysRBack

more upside is questionable...his floor is significantly below lucks as well...luck processes information incredibly fast and is a much smarter QB..there really isnt even a debate here..Luck is hands down the better QB now and later

hard to argue otherwise. RG3 is the flavor of the month that is all

**ABQCOWBOY** · 01-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by burmafrd

hard to argue otherwise. RG3 is the flavor of the month that is all

I think that RG3 is a top 5 player in this upcoming draft, assuming he test well, but only because he is a QB and there are teams that need a QB that will be drafting high. If you go off talent alone, I think he probably about right where he deserves to be. Now, it is likely that underclassmen will declare and when that happens, he may slide a bit more. I don't know.

cobra · 01-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

I think that RG3 is a top 5 player in this upcoming draft.

(not arguing with you, but just riffing off this comment...)

That may be true when all is said and done.

I'd never argue with that contention. The issue I was addressing earlier (and I know you aren't the one who made it) was the statement that RG3 has a higher ceiling or is in on par with Luck or is 1a or any other similar statements we are seeing a lot of these days. Part of it is because he is the flavor of the month.

But saying he is no where near as good as Luck does not preclude the fact that he might also be a top 5 player as you suggested.

In other words, the talent gap could like this:

1. Luck
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
2. Kalil
3. Claiborne
4. Blackmon or Richardson
5. RG3

I don't know where the top 5 will end up. But I think we do know that Luck is an automatic, no questions asked #1 and there is a drop off after that.

RG3's greatest strength is also his greatest weakness: his ability to run. There is a reason why the Super Bowl winners and best QBs are all pure pocket passers (e.g., Rogers, Brady, Brees, etc.) Because these guys are not great runners or standout athletes they have been trained and forced to know how to read a defense, move in the pocket and allow the play to develop to find the open WRs. Great athlete and dual threat QBs like RG3 never develop that skill because they are always thinking about running or are told to take off if the play isn't there. And no matter how much RG3 wants to become a pure pocket passer, he'll always be told by his coaches or fans or that nagging voice in the back of his head "if it is not there, take off!" He can have a great career being that. But he won't be among the best QBs and he won't be a SB winner. You have have a pure pocket passer QB to win at the SB level. It has to be someone who has the stones to hang in the pocket when the pressure is greatest and find the WR and when a QB is always thinking about taking off running, they will never get to that level.

**ABQCOWBOY** · 01-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobra

(not arguing with you, but just riffing off this comment...)

That may be true when all is said and done.

I'd never argue with that contention. The issue I was addressing earlier (and I know you aren't the one who made it) was the statement that RG3 has a higher ceiling or is in on par with Luck or is 1a or any other similar statements we are seeing a lot of these days. Part of it is because he is the flavor of the month.

But saying he is no where near as good as Luck does not preclude the fact that he might also be a top 5 player as you suggested.

In other words, the talent gap could like this:

1. Luck
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
2. Kalil
3. Claiborne
4. Blackmon or Richardson
5. RG3

[View Full Quote]

All fair analysis with the exception, I think, of the statement on upside. IMO, RG3 has more upside then any QB in this draft. However, upside is just another word for potential and RG3 may or may not reach that full potential so the question of upside is a gamble. It does not guarantee success but I don't believe that there is any question, RG3 has more upside then does Luck. I would still take Luck though and I would never look back.

burmafrd · 01-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

All fair analysis with the exception, I think, of the statement on upside. IMO, RG3 has more upside then any QB in this draft. However, upside is just another word for potential and RG3 may or may not reach that full potential so the question of upside is a gamble. It does not guarantee success but I don't believe that there is any question, RG3 has more upside then does Luck. I would still take Luck though and I would never look back.

potential as a QB? How can you possibly say that? has he shown anything like what has shown as regards being an NFL type QB?

Doomsday101 · 01-10-2012

I like both Luck and RGIII. If I had to make a pick I go with Luck. I do think RGIII will see success earlier on than Luck and I say that because when things break down RGIII does have the athletic ability to make things happen.

Luck being more of the pocket passer I think it will take time to adjust to the speed of the game and the heavy pressure he will face in the Pro.

In the long run though I think Luck will prove to be the better QB

jblaze2004 · 01-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobra

Falling? He's #8. That seems high to me. The people who have been calling RG3 on par with Luck are the ones who are smoking crack.

RG3 is not being drafted to play a gimmick spread offense in the Big 12. He'll be drafting to run an NFL offense in the NFL--something that we have no evidence to show he will be successful.

RG3's negatives:

Too small/slight
No experience in calling own plays
No experience in pro style offense
Very little experience under center
Too willing to run when first options are not there

His positives:

Elite athleticism
Productive
Can run
Has all the arm you need
Good kid

The NFL is and always has been a pocket passer league. Brees, Brady and Rogers is what the NFL wants. Sure, the Cam Newtons and Tebows make things interesting, but that is not what wins championships. It's the pocket passers.

[View Full Quote]

almost sound like the bust cam newton (other than the size part) .....oh wait

do everyone remember all the negatives we heard about cam newton. Well he broke alot of records for being a bust

**ABQCOWBOY** · 01-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by burmafrd

potential as a QB? How can you possibly say that? has he shown anything like what has shown as regards being an NFL type QB?

He is the most athletically gifted QB in the draft. Of that, there is no question. That is how.

jblaze2004 · 01-10-2012

it would be funny if luck become leaf

but i doubt it but boy would it be funny.

cobra · 01-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by jblaze2004

Well he broke alot of records for being a bust

Yeah, because putting up the rookie QB rushing TD record is imperative to be successful in the NFL, right?

As of now, Cam Newton has done jack crap. He isn't a bust, and he can improve, but he is nothing at this point. We can start using Cam Newton as something to be emulated when he actually gets his team deep in the playoffs.

Look at NFL history. If what you are looking for in an NFL QB is one who can put up impressive individual performances, be a dual threat, and show of personal athleticism, then great. You do that. Have fun always falling short each season. That's what NFL history proves unquestionably.

Me? I'll take the pure pocket passer who learns to rely on his ability to read the defense and wait until a WR gets open instead of taking off running. That would be Brady, Brees and Rogers. And I'll be winning Super Bowls while you enjoy your highlight reels in January.

RG3 would be an improvement at QB for maybe 10 teams in the NFL. He should be drafted early. But as a prospect for a team that wants to win Super Bowls, there is no doubt that Luck is a far superior prospect because he projects to be the type of franchise QB that can win Super Bowls--not set rushing TD records.

cbow44 · 01-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobra

Yeah, because putting up the rookie QB rushing TD record is imperative to be successful in the NFL, right?

As of now, Cam Newton has done jack crap. He isn't a bust, and he can improve, but he is nothing at this point. We can start using Cam Newton as something to be emulated when he actually gets his team deep in the playoffs.

Look at NFL history. If what you are looking for in an NFL QB is one who can put up impressive individual performances, be a dual threat, and show of personal athleticism, then great. You do that. Have fun always falling short each season. That's what NFL history proves unquestionably.

Me? I'll take the pure pocket passer who learns to rely on his ability to read the defense and wait until a WR gets open instead of taking off running. That would be Brady, Brees and Rogers. And I'll be winning Super Bowls while you enjoy your highlight reels in January.

[View Full Quote]

Are you saying if you were starting a team right now, you would take Sam Bradford over Cam Newton. Pure pocket passer and all that

RS12 · 01-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobra

Yeah, because putting up the rookie QB rushing TD record is imperative to be successful in the NFL, right?

As of now, Cam Newton has done jack crap. He isn't a bust, and he can improve, but he is nothing at this point. We can start using Cam Newton as something to be emulated when he actually gets his team deep in the playoffs.

Look at NFL history. If what you are looking for in an NFL QB is one who can put up impressive individual performances, be a dual threat, and show of personal athleticism, then great. You do that. Have fun always falling short each season. That's what NFL history proves unquestionably.

Me? I'll take the pure pocket passer who learns to rely on his ability to read the defense and wait until a WR gets open instead of taking off running. That would be Brady, Brees and Rogers. And I'll be winning Super Bowls while you enjoy your highlight reels in January.

[View Full Quote]

I think Newton is already far better than 95% (me included) thought he would ever be. The guy can play.

SkinsHokieFan · 01-10-2012

I don't think we'll see a rookie season like Cam Newton had (passing) for a very very long time. His skill set is elite and who knew the guy could actually study and learn an offense.

Luck is the real deal. No question about that at all. The knock on him will be he spent 3 years in a fantastic scheme with a virtual NFL o-line and an elite running game. Josh Johnson put up great numbers in the Harbaugh offense also. These will be thoughts talked about over the next few months.

Personally I am still very high on him and see him being a year in year out pro bowler. The value in him is the safety in the pick, you won't have a Brady Quinn like bust with him.

RG3 has a very high ceiling. Elite arm great deep ball and incredible play making ability. He hasn't had nearly the offensive line nor the support system at Baylor. However he never takes a snap under center and does not read a defense like Luck does. He isn't as "pro ready" as Andrew Luck. Its evident on film as he quickly goes through reads and then takes off.

Just my thought, you will do fantastic with either QB if you build a scheme that maximizes them. If you keep RG3 strictly in the pocket and try and mold him into Tom Brady, you'll fail. You need to do what Rob Chudinzki did with Newton and not be afraid to throw in a read option element into your offense, move him around and take advantage of his play making ability.

With Luck I think it is imperative you put him in a scheme which has balance and a strong enough run presence. We haven't seen him face a heavy pass rush, we are still not sure how he'll respond to adverse conditions and playing behind a line with less then 2 first round picks.

If you get either of them, 5 years from now you'll be very happy. I'd rather take Luck myself, but RG3 will be an elite QB as well.