Melvin Ingram is a beast

[jnday]

Originally Posted by tm1119

Theres only 4 guards in this draft that I see being day 1 starters. DeCastro, Glenn, Osemele, and Zeitler. They will most likely go off of the board in that order with Osemele being on the fringe of getting to us at #45. So that means we could only be looking at Zeitler and having to pull the trigger on him in the 2nd. The obvious thing is to go with the no-brainer of DeCastro in the 1st and take advantage of the depth at CB and address that position in the 2nd or 3rd(boykin, hayward, gilmore, ect.). OLB is a little more dicey, but there is still some talent to be had in the 2nd/3rd(Curry, McClellin, Branch, Irvin, Lindsay)

I agree with you on all points . You have the same take on the depth of the of the guard position in this draft as I do .

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by jnday

What guard do you see as being a day one starter that can be picked up in the third ? If you are this sure , you need to do this for a living .

Just depends but I think Zeitler will be there in the 3rd.

Look at last years draft. Moffit and Rackley both starters went in the 3rd and this draft class at OG is better than it was last year. Much deeper.

as of right now 3rd round OGs, some might fall and some might rise in to round 2.
Kevin Zeitler
Amini Silatolu
Senio Kelemete
Joe Looney
Lucas Nix
Brandon Mosley
Andrew Datko

I think will rise into the 3rd are
Antonio McClain
Rishaw Jackson
Don Barclay

I will agree with you that DeCastro is far and away better but this teams defense must be rebuilt and so must the OL, I know. IF DeCastro is there and top player on our board then I'm fine with the pcik, but its going to be hard to find a day one starting CB and SOLB in round 2 and 3.

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by tm1119

Theres only 4 guards in this draft that I see being day 1 starters. DeCastro, Glenn, Osemele, and Zeitler. They will most likely go off of the board in that order with Osemele being on the fringe of getting to us at #45. So that means we could only be looking at Zeitler and having to pull the trigger on him in the 2nd. The obvious thing is to go with the no-brainer of DeCastro in the 1st and take advantage of the depth at CB and address that position in the 2nd or 3rd(boykin, hayward, gilmore, ect.). OLB is a little more dicey, but there is still some talent to be had in the 2nd/3rd(Curry, McClellin, Branch, Irvin, Lindsay)

you think Curry, McClellin, Branch, Irvin, and Lindsey can come in and start at SOLB day one.
wow that amazes me, if those guys were day one starters then they would go in round 1 or early round 2. day one starting DEs and OLBs don't go 3rd round very often, you have a far better chance at getting a OG to start day one in round 2 or 3.

[MichaelWinicki]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

so you pay Spencer 7-9 million a year and use a draft pick on another OLB, why? I mean why not use that pick on another position. Spencer will sign a long term deal so if he is resigned he is here for another 3-4 years.

I don't see Spencer getting 7 mil a season.

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

I don't see Spencer getting 7 mil a season.

then you need to look at what OLBs in a 3-4 gets paid.

Calvin Pace got 6 year 42 million, that is 7 a year coming off a year where he got only 6.5 sacks
so yes Spencers agent will want atleast that.

[MichaelWinicki]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

then you need to look at what OLBs in a 3-4 gets paid.

Calvin Pace got 6 year 42 million, that is 7 a year coming off a year where he got only 6.5 sacks
so yes Spencers agent will want atleast that.

Oh no question his agent will ask for the moon.

Now if he gets it is another thing.

I don't know what the impression is of Spencer from around the league.

[rooler]

Spencer has been hot and cold this year. He'll be a free agent in March. I doubt Dallas will want to pay him the money he's looking for.

I just as soon draft any of theses guys

Dont'a Hightower, ILB, Alabama
Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina
Nick Perry, DE/OLB, USC

[MichaelWinicki]

Originally Posted by rooler

Spencer has been hot and cold this year. He'll be a free agent in March. I doubt Dallas will want to pay him the money he's looking for.

I just as soon draft any of theses guys

Dont'a Hightower, ILB, Alabama
Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina
Nick Perry, DE/OLB, USC

The trouble is you're not going to gain any great game day advantage by drafting one of those guys to replace Spencer.

I'd rather overpay Spencer a little, keep him and focus on positions that were very substandard in 2011... Namely corner and guard. DeCastro or one of the top 3 corners would be an instant improvement over what we had in 2011. I don't think any of these guys would be an instant improvement over Spencer, once you figure in the three responsibilities of Spencer's position, namely pass-rush, coverage and run defense.

[rooler]

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

The trouble is you're not going to gain any great game day advantage by drafting one of those guys to replace Spencer.

I'd rather overpay Spencer a little, keep him and focus on positions that were very substandard in 2011... Namely corner and guard. DeCastro or one of the top 3 corners would be an instant improvement over what we had in 2011. I don't think any of these guys would be an instant improvement over Spencer, once you figure in the three responsibilities of Spencer's position, namely pass-rush, coverage and run defense.

yup your senario is good but I don't see it happening

[tm1119]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

you think Curry, McClellin, Branch, Irvin, and Lindsey can come in and start at SOLB day one.
wow that amazes me, if those guys were day one starters then they would go in round 1 or early round 2. day one starting DEs and OLBs don't go 3rd round very often, you have a far better chance at getting a OG to start day one in round 2 or 3.

My point was that those guys are better than the guards that will be available in round 3. Will they be immediate starters? Maybe not. But day 1 contributors is a lot more likely. I've been an advocate of resigning Spencer and drafting a guy to be a situational pass rusher on obvious passing downs. Letting Spencer go and drafting any OLB in the 1st round isn't going to get this team any further.

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by tm1119

My point was that those guys are better than the guards that will be available in round 3. Will they be immediate starters? Maybe not. But day 1 contributors is a lot more likely. I've been an advocate of resigning Spencer and drafting a guy to be a situational pass rusher on obvious passing downs. Letting Spencer go and drafting any OLB in the 1st round isn't going to get this team any further.

my point is no they aren't. How many OLB in the 3-4 do you see starting day one as a rookie drafted in the 3rd. Give me a list please. But I can give you a good list og OGs that were drafted in the 3rd that started day one.

If we resign Spencer then no way do we spend a top 3 round pick on a OLB, you don't do that to a position where you just signed a guy long term and big money.

Ingram is far and away better than any of those guys you mentioned.
Ingram is so athletic and powerful I don't understand after all the hate people put on SPencer these past years, now no one wants to replace him or think a 3rd round pick can do it day one. Is this a joke.

We have four major holes to fill this offseason.
SOLB, CB, OG and Center, we need day one starters at all those spots.
If your going to do so via the draft then you have to play the odds.
Odds of getting a day one starting OLB past the first is slim past the 2nd is very slim.
Odds of getting a day one startng CB past the first is very slim, getting one past the 2nd is almost non existence.
Getting a day one starting OG or Center past he first is pretty goo dodds, getting one past the 2nd still very good odds, getting one past the 3rd your odds go down but still not as bad as CB or OLB.

[MichaelWinicki]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

my point is no they aren't. How many OLB in the 3-4 do you see starting day one as a rookie drafted in the 3rd. Give me a list please. But I can give you a good list og OGs that were drafted in the 3rd that started day one.

If we resign Spencer then no way do we spend a top 3 round pick on a OLB, you don't do that to a position where you just signed a guy long term and big money.

Ingram is far and away better than any of those guys you mentioned.
Ingram is so athletic and powerful I don't understand after all the hate people put on SPencer these past years, now no one wants to replace him or think a 3rd round pick can do it day one. Is this a joke.

We have four major holes to fill this offseason.
SOLB, CB, OG and Center, we need day one starters at all those spots.
If your going to do so via the draft then you have to play the odds.
[View Full Quote]Odds of getting a day one starting OLB past the first is slim past the 2nd is very slim.
Odds of getting a day one startng CB past the first is very slim, getting one past the 2nd is almost non existence.
Getting a day one starting OG or Center past he first is pretty goo dodds, getting one past the 2nd still very good odds, getting one past the 3rd your odds go down but still not as bad as CB or OLB.

I guess I don't see Ingram or any of these other OLBers being head & shoulders above Spencer at this point.

Keep Spencer... If the contract demands are realistic.

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

I guess I don't see Ingram or any of these other OLBers being head & shoulders above Spencer at this point.

Keep Spencer... If the contract demands are realistic.

and if the contract demands aren't then what do you do, what is releastic for you. For me anything over 4.5 a year is to much. You also have to look at other FAs you can sign with that money. Do you want Carl Nicks, a CB, ILB, FS, or any player for the DL. If you sign Spencer most liekly it won't be for 4.5 a year and will be closer to 7 a year.

I think Ingram is a beast that can do anything. He will drop about 10 pounds and get ready for the combine and blow it away. They guy can blitz up the middle, around the edge, hold his goruond vs the run and drop back into coverage with ease. The guy is smart, a leader, and a team captain all things Garrett likes in a player.
Also he can line up at DE, DT, and OLB which gives Ryan a player with versitilty which he likes in a player.

[tm1119]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

my point is no they aren't. How many OLB in the 3-4 do you see starting day one as a rookie drafted in the 3rd. Give me a list please. But I can give you a good list og OGs that were drafted in the 3rd that started day one.

If we resign Spencer then no way do we spend a top 3 round pick on a OLB, you don't do that to a position where you just signed a guy long term and big money.

Ingram is far and away better than any of those guys you mentioned.
Ingram is so athletic and powerful I don't understand after all the hate people put on SPencer these past years, now no one wants to replace him or think a 3rd round pick can do it day one. Is this a joke.

We have four major holes to fill this offseason.
SOLB, CB, OG and Center, we need day one starters at all those spots.
If your going to do so via the draft then you have to play the odds.
[View Full Quote]Odds of getting a day one starting OLB past the first is slim past the 2nd is very slim.
Odds of getting a day one startng CB past the first is very slim, getting one past the 2nd is almost non existence.
Getting a day one starting OG or Center past he first is pretty goo dodds, getting one past the 2nd still very good odds, getting one past the 3rd your odds go down but still not as bad as CB or OLB.

Just to name a few that came to mind without doing a ton of research....
James Harrison- Undrafted
Lamarr Woodley- 2nd round #46
Cameron Wake- undrafted
Shaun Phillips- Round 4 #98
Joey Porter- 3rd round #73
Ahmad Brooks- 3rd round supplemental

Either way this logic is completely flawed. Just because there were previously guards who were drafted in the 3rd round that did well doesnt mean we should just wait until the 3rd round to draft 1. That logic will run your franchise into the ground quickly.

[Woods]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

and if the contract demands aren't then what do you do, what is releastic for you. For me anything over 4.5 a year is to much. You also have to look at other FAs you can sign with that money. Do you want Carl Nicks, a CB, ILB, FS, or any player for the DL. If you sign Spencer most liekly it won't be for 4.5 a year and will be closer to 7 a year.

I think Ingram is a beast that can do anything. He will drop about 10 pounds and get ready for the combine and blow it away. They guy can blitz up the middle, around the edge, hold his goruond vs the run and drop back into coverage with ease. The guy is smart, a leader, and a team captain all things Garrett likes in a player.
Also he can line up at DE, DT, and OLB which gives Ryan a player with versitilty which he likes in a player.

If Spencer isn't re-signed for whatever reason, I think we almost have to go OLB in Round 1.

Unless there is someone else RR really covets in FA. But otherwise, we're pretty much forced to draft an OLB really high.