Day one ready to start OLBs - Dallas Cowboys Forum

supercowboy8 · 01-11-2012

Alot of poeple want Spencer gone, so we need a SOLB day one.
I hope that alot of you are smart enough to know the difference between SOLB and WOLB. SOLB has more responsibilies to cover and do before the snap and after during the play. But I'm not going to get in to that as I have listed those several times before.
So lets replace Spencer, several thinks you can just draft a pass rusher even though they never played standing up, not good vs the run and has stiff hips and doubt they can drop back into coverage.
Alot of those same people think you can draft a player in the 2rd or later and plug him in day one.
So to any one who think that can happen please show me a list of 3-4 OLBs that was draft 2nd round or later that were day one ready to start. Guys that came in and started day one at 3-4 OLB that wasn't drafted in the 1st round and then tell me why it will work this year, in this draft, for the Cowboys.
If we replace Spencer then it must be a replacement at #14.
Aldon Smith wasn't and still isn't a starter and he was drafted 7th overall.
Spencer wasn't even a starter day one, that how har dthis positon is to translate to.

Doomsday101 · 01-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

Alot of poeple want Spencer gone, so we need a SOLB day one.
I hope that alot of you are smart enough to know the difference between SOLB and WOLB. SOLB has more responsibilies to cover and do before the snap and after during the play. But I'm not going to get in to that as I have listed those several times before.
So lets replace Spencer, several thinks you can just draft a pass rusher even though they never played standing up, not good vs the run and has stiff hips and doubt they can drop back into coverage.
Alot of those same people think you can draft a player in the 2rd or later and plug him in day one.
So to any one who think that can happen please show me a list of 3-4 OLBs that was draft 2nd round or later that were day one ready to start. Guys that came in and started day one at 3-4 OLB that wasn't drafted in the 1st round and then tell me why it will work this year, in this draft, for the Cowboys.
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I don't want him gone but I also do not want to see Dallas over pay for him either.

dallasfaniac · 01-11-2012

Off the top of my head, Lamarr Woodley could have been a starter but definately showed them enough year one to name him starter the next year.

Dcowboy84 · 01-11-2012

you make a valid point, however i think there would be different circumstances this year, depending on the player taken

when we got Spencer we still had Greg Ellis here who believed he could start, and ended up being comeback player of the year that season.

Spencer was also transitioning from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB. we have to remember not all guys just jump in and do fantastic making that switch. even Ware had some trouble adjusting with some aspects of that move.

Aldon Smith is the same situation, making the move from DE to OLB. and when he's in from the games i've seen he is mainly rushing the passer and not doing the full load of a 3-4 OLB right now. so he's probably progressing as expected, if not better than expected based on his sack #'s.

so back to the main point, if we let Spencer go and draft a guy to be the replacement, he will get a whole offseason to be learning the position of 3-4 OLB, assuming it's a guy that didn't play in a 3-4 in college.

and depending on who you get he may be a guy that already is going to make an impact even though he'll have growing pains.

i think about a guy like Upshaw from Alabama. watching him play i think he could already step in day 1 after going through mini camps and training camp. however if you got a guy in the 3rd round or below you're rolling the dice.

as i started this post out you make a good point, i think it is just going to depend on the situation and the player

supercowboy8 · 01-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

I don't want him gone but I also do not want to see Dallas over pay for him either.

so what do you want. Calvin Pace got 6.5 sacks and is worse in coverage and vs the run his last year in Arizona and he got a 7 mill per year from the Jets. What do you think Spencers agent is going to want then.

RoyTheHammer · 01-11-2012

How about instead of looking in the past, we look to the future?

Instead of asking who in the past were ready to be the day one starter coming out of the draft, a better question would be do any of you guys see a guy in the upcoming draft who could replace Spencer day one and come close to matching his production?

I would say there are 3 guys who i know of right now who could possibly come close, but that's a big risk.

They would be Ingram, Upshaw, or Branch.

I'd rather us resign Spencer and focus on more important needs early on in the draft though.

supercowboy8 · 01-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by dallasfaniac

Off the top of my head, Lamarr Woodley could have been a starter but definately showed them enough year one to name him starter the next year.

OK but he wasn't a day one starter. Thats one player that you said he could have been, but the truth is that he wasn't.

supercowboy8 · 01-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyTheHammer

How about instead of looking in the past, we look to the future?

Instead of asking who in the past were ready to be the day one starter coming out of the draft, a better question would be do any of you guys see a guy in the upcoming draft who could replace Spencer day one and come close to matching his production?

I would say there are 3 guys who i know of right now who could possibly come close, but that's a big risk.

They would be Ingram, Upshaw, or Branch.

I'd rather us resign Spencer and focus on more important needs early on in the draft though.

Branch no, Ingram and Upshaw yes but those two are round one picks.

RoyTheHammer · 01-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

Branch no, Ingram and Upshaw yes but those two are round one picks.

Why no Branch compared to Ingram or Upshaw?

Doomsday101 · 01-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

so what do you want. Calvin Pace got 6.5 sacks and is worse in coverage and vs the run his last year in Arizona and he got a 7 mill per year from the Jets. What do you think Spencers agent is going to want then.

I want a guy with better upside. You say a OLB could not start day 1, not true they may make mistakes but you don't draft for day 1 you draft long term.

supercowboy8 · 01-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

I want a guy with better upside. You say a OLB could not start day 1, not true they may make mistakes but you don't draft for day 1 you draft long term.

you do both in the 1st round, Jerry has stated that many times. And if we draft a SOLB and let Spencer walk then we will have to have that guy start day one.

And when saying a OLB can't start day one past the first round is true, why would you start a player that isn't ready and is going to make mistakes and lose you games? So he wasn't ready to start. I'm tlaking about drafting a SOLB that is ready to start and take over for Spencer.

supercowboy8 · 01-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyTheHammer

Why no Branch compared to Ingram or Upshaw?

Not at 14, I don't think he is ready day one. Very long and stiff hipped. Never seen him in coverage and get taken off the field alot. Did you see the bowl game where he didn't do very much and was taken off the field to much. Looks more like a natural 4-3 DE. Also he plays to high vs the run.

Doomsday101 · 01-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

you do both in the 1st round, Jerry has stated that many times. And if we draft a SOLB and let Spencer walk then we will have to have that guy start day one.

And when saying a OLB can't start day one past the first round is true, why would you start a player that isn't ready and is going to make mistakes and lose you games? So he wasn't ready to start. I'm tlaking about drafting a SOLB that is ready to start and take over for Spencer.

Why Spencer was not a day 1 starter in Dallas. Ellis was playing the position better than Spencer has in any year since he has been here. He is a good player he is not a great player and if someone wants to give him a big contract well so be it but Dallas paying him top money would be foolish.

I know some think Spencer is great but when you have Ware on the opposite side I expect a heck of a lot more than what Spencer has provided.

supercowboy8 · 01-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

Why Spencer was not a day 1 starter in Dallas. Ellis was playing the position better than Spencer has in any year since he has been here. He is a good player he is not a great player and if someone wants to give him a big contract well so be it but Dallas paying him top money would be foolish.

I know some think Spencer is great but when you have Ware on the opposite side I expect a heck of a lot more than what Spencer has provided.

Ok then what do you do if Spencer walk, the pick #14 has to be a day one starting OLB because history has shown you can't find a day one starting 3-4 OLB past the first. If a Ryan Kerrigan who was drafted 16th last year in the first round is at 14 then you take him because you absolutely have to have a replacement SOLB if Spencer walks.

RoyTheHammer · 01-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

Not at 14, I don't think he is ready day one. Very long and stiff hipped. Never seen him in coverage and get taken off the field alot. Did you see the bowl game where he didn't do very much and was taken off the field to much. Looks more like a natural 4-3 DE. Also he plays to high vs the run.

I wasn't talking about Branch as a guy at 14. He'd be a second round guy, but could probably come close to matching the production of the other two at a much better value. He's the same build, athletic enough to make the switch to 34 OLB, and faced double teams constantly at Clemson, but still came through with double digit sacks.