Slim pickings @ #14

[reddyuta]

1)ingram
2)decastro
3)kirkpatrick.

[VACowboy]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

I have to roll my eyes at some here.

After all the years of whining about not picking the BPA - so many are unwilling to pick the absolute best player at one position. And that will be Decastro.

And it is a position of serious need as well.


No one else that will be available at #14 will be considered the absolute BEST in the league at that position while at the same time being considered one of the BEST at that position that has come around in YEARS.

Luck is that way; no one here would blink at taking him if we had the chance.

But because DeCastro is a guard some turn their noses up at him?

JUST PLAIN STUPID

I'm just afraid he'll be long gone.

[Flyo87]

I'm not sure the infatuation with Kirkpatrick. People talk about wanting ball hawks and guys who play the ball in the air and you want to draft this guy? He's too long legged and stiff to stick with guys like Nicks, Cruz, and all the other smaller WR's in our division. Unless we're playing a press man or cover 2 scheme I'm not looking at him. IMO his best attribute is his run support. Janoris Jenkins is a much better corner but he's got too many off the field issues and we've already take too many risks with these knucklehead guys. For me its Jared Crick all day. Complete player who would come in and improve our pass rush and collaspe the pocket. Got 9 sacks as a Jr without Suh there to take the attention away and is very good in the run game. He's going to be a nice 3-4DE for someone.

[robert70x7]

I'll go Top 5. I'm glad it seems like some people are shying away from Kirkpatrick. His boneheaded mistake makes him untouchable from a Cowboys perspective (in my opinion).

1. David DeCastro
2. Jonathan Martin
3. Melvin Ingram
4. Courtney Upshaw
5. Luke Kuechly

My reasoning behind this is that cornerback seems to be an area of strength in the free agency market and I think it is a long shot that we drop the dough on Nicks/Grubbs. Outside of Kirkpatrick, there is no cornerback that is worth taking in that spot that will be availabe (Dennard would be a reach). Jenkins or Minnifield might be there in the 2nd round and I think that's when we can take advantage of the deep second tier corners in this draft class.

I think we have to get on offensive linemen in here that can come in and start right away, whether it be through free agency or the draft. DeCastro isn't a reach in my opinion because he played in a pro-style offense, as well as Martin, and is one of the highest graded interior lineman since Steve Hutchinson (who was also taken in the first round at pick 17).

The DE/OLB crop is somewhat weak this year and I don't know if Ingram/Upshaw would be significant upgrades over Spencer, which is why I think we will eventually bring Spencer back. Unless Coples fell to us, and there are questions about his motor and I don't know how he'd adjust to playing in a 3-4 as a DE, but I just don't see a lot of players that will be there at 14 who would come in right away and fill Spencer's void.

[jnday]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

I have to roll my eyes at some here.

After all the years of whining about not picking the BPA - so many are unwilling to pick the absolute best player at one position. And that will be Decastro.

And it is a position of serious need as well.


No one else that will be available at #14 will be considered the absolute BEST in the league at that position while at the same time being considered one of the BEST at that position that has come around in YEARS.

Luck is that way; no one here would blink at taking him if we had the chance.

But because DeCastro is a guard some turn their noses up at him?




JUST PLAIN STUPID

I know from your previous post that you would like an elite pass rusher in this draft , but you have enough common sense to know that the BPA would be the wise pick at 14 . That pick just happens to be DeCastro . Some of these posters would rather take a CB or OLB that was ranked much lower , just to address defense . If Romo gets hurt for the third straight year, the same posters will be the first to blame Jerry for drafting poorly .

[DBOY3141]

Originally Posted by VACowboy

It has nothing to do with Free not being ok at RT. It has to do with putting a talented OL in front of Romo. If Martin is there at #14 he is probably at the top of the board and we aren't just drafting a RT. We are drafting a very talented player who starts from day one and instantly makes two positions on the OL better.

I agree that we need defense, but in my opinion, any pass rusher or corner likely to be there at #14 would be a much greater reach than Martin.

But what if Free can't play guard? Or Martin can't play guard? Then you just drafted a guy to play a position that you already have a guy at.

I agree DeCastro is a beast, but offense was not our problem last year. Nagy and Arkin will get better, as will Smith. If DeCastro is rated #10 and say Ingram is rated 18. To me that's not a huge gap and you go with your biggest need.

[unionjack8]

DeCastro
Coples
Brockers

then

Kirkpatrick

[BrAinPaiNt]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

I have to roll my eyes at some here.

After all the years of whining about not picking the BPA - so many are unwilling to pick the absolute best player at one position. And that will be Decastro.

And it is a position of serious need as well.


No one else that will be available at #14 will be considered the absolute BEST in the league at that position while at the same time being considered one of the BEST at that position that has come around in YEARS.

Luck is that way; no one here would blink at taking him if we had the chance.

But because DeCastro is a guard some turn their noses up at him?

Agreed...it is not like we are talking about a punter or kicker (wink wink raiders).

I think decastro is much better than most of the players that will be available at our position.

It fits the BPA AND the need mantra to a T.

It just makes sense.

With that said, I would not be shocked if we reached for a lesser player at another position like Barron at safety.

[visionary]

got news for ya buddy

the pickins are never slim at pick #14 of a 7 round draft

just have to know who to pick

decastro
ingram
martin
trade down

and i am sure many others

[Phrozen Phil]

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

Agreed...it is not like we are talking about a punter or kicker (wink wink raiders).

I think decastro is much better than most of the players that will be available at our position.

It fits the BPA AND the need mantra to a T.

It just makes sense.

With that said, I would not be shocked if we reached for a lesser player at another position like Barron at safety.

I agree. In my earlier post I agreed that Martin was not a reach. I am on board with taking DeCastro if he's available. At 14, he would be the BPA, provided he's still there.

I believe that we would do better if we could keep our offense on the field longer and sustain drives. Our D played too many downs in critical games, particularly late in the game. The best favour we could do for our defense is to keep them off the field as much as possible.

That being said, i'd like to see some new blood at DB. Round 2 could yield some real talent.

[robert70x7]

Originally Posted by DBOY3141

But what if Free can't play guard? Or Martin can't play guard? Then you just drafted a guy to play a position that you already have a guy at.

I agree DeCastro is a beast, but offense was not our problem last year. Nagy and Arkin will get better, as will Smith. If DeCastro is rated #10 and say Ingram is rated 18. To me that's not a huge gap and you go with your biggest need.

Coach Houck addressed this on Norm yesterday. His objective was to start the five best offensive line players, regardless of position, and he believes that Free would have the capability of playing guard, he's a big man.

You are comparing apples and oranges between DeCastro and Ingram. You should be asking yourself if Ingram is better than Anthony Spencer.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

I have to roll my eyes at some here.

After all the years of whining about not picking the BPA - so many are unwilling to pick the absolute best player at one position. And that will be Decastro.

And it is a position of serious need as well.


No one else that will be available at #14 will be considered the absolute BEST in the league at that position while at the same time being considered one of the BEST at that position that has come around in YEARS.

Luck is that way; no one here would blink at taking him if we had the chance.

But because DeCastro is a guard some turn their noses up at him?

JUST PLAIN STUPID

I agree. While I'm not going to call anyone stupid I will say in many reports I have seen DeCastro is looked at as one of the 3 top players in this draft. If he is at 14 I take him and would not blink an eye. I don't think it is over valuing the position of Guard especially when teams are getting a big push up our middle and here is a guy that can put an end to that. Keeping Romo up and healthy is a pretty critical job.

My rule of thumb avg players are a dime a dozen, great players you grab them when you get the chance regardless of the position they play

[JoeCorrado]

Originally Posted by TheSport78

If you could choose from THREE PLAYERS who you truly believe will be available at #14, let's hear them, with #1 being your top choice and #3 being your last choice.

1. OG David DeCastro
2. CB Dre Kirkpatrick (I know, I know)
3. DE/LB Melvin Ingram

Of your three...

1. Ingram - projected pass rusher fills a real need.
2. DeCastro - projected anti-pass rusher, fills a need.
3. Kirkpatrick - projected idiot, creates problems we don't need. (Dez, x 1000)

[robert70x7]

Ingram reminds me too much of Spencer. Both are 6'2-6'3 and weigh(ed) 260-270 prior to the draft (although combine numbers aren't availabe for Ingram).

Here's what they said about Spencer:

"Spencer is a big time threat off the edge. He constantly applies pressure from the outside and is always battling to make the play. He is a solid athlete, with good quickness. He gets a great burst off the line and used it to gain an initial step, but also has the strength to create space with his hands. He shows good pop at the point of attack and the quickness to break down and move towards the quarterback.


Even though he plays with enough power to play end in the NFL, he may lack the pure bulk to be an every down end. He also will need work playing off the line and in space.
Anthony Spencer is a very good pass rusher who can provide consistent pressure off the edge. He gets good leverage and can hold his own in run blocking. If he can add some weight to sustain more of a pounding in the NFL, he may develop into a starting caliber DE. His best fit may be as a 3-4 OLB with his pass rushing ability. Spencer has really risen on many boards, and could land in the first round on draft day."

Here's what people are saying about Ingram:

"Began career at LB and has been in a rotation at DE the last two seasons (2009-'10). Will be a fulltime starter at DE in 2011. Has the potential to play DE in a four-man front, as well as OLB in some 3-4 schemes (Ravens, Steelers, etc.). Has some experience rushing the QB from inside, as well. "

"Has more game experience on passing downs but flashes upside in this area. Uses his leverage effectively and is a bit stronger at the point of attack than expected. Flashes the ability to anchor versus the double team. Also does a nice job of keeping his feet moving versus the zone run. Shows above average discipline and works hard to maintain outside contain. Has very good range versus the run. Can really turn on the jets when pursuing from the backside. He can improve his tackling skills. Awareness is adequate but can still improve. Flashes some power at the point of attack but leaves his feet and will fall off too many attempted tackles."

I haven't found anything that says that he would be adequate in coverage and the comparisons between him and Spencer are eerie, with the slight edge given to Ingram for playing against tougher competition in the SEC.

[jblaze2004]

Originally Posted by robert70x7

Coach Houck addressed this on Norm yesterday. His objective was to start the five best offensive line players, regardless of position, and he believes that Free would have the capability of playing guard, he's a big man.

You are comparing apples and oranges between DeCastro and Ingram. You should be asking yourself if Ingram is better than Anthony Spencer.

the problem with this is are you willing to pay spencer over 7mil a season (the contract calvin pace got from the jets last year?) IDK if spencer is going to give us a discount or not but spencer might be looking for that type of deal if so would you pony up the 7mil or pass. I would pass. Sometimes you have to draft a guy to replace a guy that bolted in FA to save money on upgrading another position. If we draft someone like ingram or upshaw....(i want nic perry right now) that doesn't mean he has to be better than spencer. He might not be better in coverage off the bat but he might be better at getting to the qb. Spencer problem is his motor and maybe work ethic. Most of the time it looks like he is just going through the motions. You have a hall of famer playing across from you. You should be practicing and following ware steps and picking his brain to get better at passrushing but no spencer is content with never having more than 6 sacks in a season. Heck hatcher had 4.5 sacks in 13 games this year as a rotation player.

Put it this way spencer has to step up. I rather throw victor butler out there than overpay for spencer like we did marion barber and even t-new.