Stephon Gilmore (South Carolina) VS Dre Kirkpatrick (Alabama)

[poost]

I don't know how I feel about Gilmore at 14. I think I'd much rather trade down and draf thim at 16-20 range. That would net you another 3rd rounder which would be within the top 100 picks. At the moment, I don't think the Cowboys will be selecting at #14.

[Doomsday]

I would be happy with Gilmore. The thought of having 4 young corners with a ton of potential has to bring a smile to your face after what happened to the secondary last season.

[RealCowboyfan]

Originally Posted by 28 Joker

I totally butchered this post, because I was in a rush. Let me fix it. I apologize.

Let me try to clarify, because I think it's important. If Rob Ryan does favor Kirkpatrick in his scheme, Ryan could leave at any time. Furthermore, Gilmore was a more explosive, more productive player at South Carolina than Kirkpatrick was at Alabama. Gilmore has the talent and skill set to play in multiple schemes and thrive. I think Gilmore could be in play starting at pick 7, imo.

[View Full Quote]Mike Lombardi (NFL Network) talked about how Gilmore could win at the bottom or top of the route, just like Darelle Revis. Gilmore is a long-armed, big, fast, quick CB who can win on a receiver's cut at the top of the route and go get the ball. Moreover, Gilmore has the length and size to get physical and win at the line of scrimmage, too. Again, Gilmore can win at the bottom or top of the route. That is a key separation between the two players. Gilmore covered Julio Jones and A.J. Green, too. So, organizations have access to that tape, too.

On the other hand, Lombardi compared Kirkpatrick to a player like Asomugha. Kirkpatrick wins at the bottom of the route by getting physical at the line of scrimmage. Lombardi stated that cornerbacks in this class usually don't have the high interception numbers.

That is what I was trying to say. Gilmore can win both ways or play both ways, but Kirkpatrick isn't that type of player according to Lombardi.

Anyway, Kirkpatrick is a good player, but I think Gilmore is the superior player, imo. I think Gilmore's play at South Carolina speaks for itself, and if he played at Alabama or LSU, he probably wouldn't be the late riser that he is now.

If Dallas takes a CB in round 1, it should be Gilmore. It really shouldn't be close, imo. Gilmore could execute Ryan's scheme or the next defensive coordinator's scheme. The Cowboys should take the best CB, and that is Gilmore, imo. Kirkpatrick isn't the cleanest player in the intangible department, either. That may be one reason why he has so many visits scheduled.

I think Gilmore will get serious looks from Jacksonville at 7, Buffalo at 10, Kansas City at 11, possibly Seattle at 12, and possibly Arizona at 13. Dallas should be looking, too. I agree with Chocolate Lab. Gilmore has a chance to go much higher than he is being projected right now.

Im a kirk patrick fan but you kind of selling me on Gilmore, im hearing alot about him.

[RealCowboyfan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQpD84Ehpt8

STEPHON GILMORE.... Based off of this im leaning towards Kirkpatrick

[RealCowboyfan]

My choice would be Kirkpatrick. here's why

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBJVJRfhUEg

[Eskimo]

Originally Posted by RealCowboyfan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQpD84Ehpt8

STEPHON GILMORE.... Based off of this im leaning towards Kirkpatrick

The argument about lack of fast twitch ability doesn't stand to reason - look at his explosion measurables - very, very good.

The argument about tight hips also doesn't make sense when you look at his agility numbers - extremely good.

I also don't buy the argument about lack of production. You don't measure by CBs by lack of production. You measure them by their ability to cover which is a game tape assessment, not a statistical assessment.

The biggest negative he mentioned was poor hands - I can live with that in a press CB so long as he'll knock the ball down. It's probably a bigger deal for a zone CB.

[Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Deep_Freeze

Your probably right, I wasn't thinking about Janoris cause he isn't really a consideration for me at 14. Gilmore is just a safer pick than Janoris, plus like you said the $10 million in cap space is something that is ignored, but has a huge impact on this team next year.

I know most think short term here, but if we could find a replacement for both Jenkins and Spencer in this draft, that would be like $19 million in per year salary savings for us next year to spend on other positions of need.

Just imagine what we could do with that money.

Maybe find a pass rusher in FA to help out Ware?

[Eskimo]

Originally Posted by poost

I don't know how I feel about Gilmore at 14. I think I'd much rather trade down and draf thim at 16-20 range. That would net you another 3rd rounder which would be within the top 100 picks. At the moment, I don't think the Cowboys will be selecting at #14.

I think if Gilmore is the pick then a trade down to 20 makes sense as I don't see many drafts projecting him this high.

I actually really don't mind even going after the 2nd and 3rd round CBs in this draft, though. There is a lot of depth at this position.

[Deep_Freeze]

Originally Posted by Eskimo

Maybe find a pass rusher in FA to help out Ware?

Free agency should have some nutty prices next summer, but with dead money coming off and if we let some FAs like Jenkins and Spencer walk, we could make a pretty huge splash if we need it.

Would be great to find that pass rusher, if available and not already drafted by the team (although you can never have too many). What I do want is that space there so if one is available, we can jump on him and pay what needs to be paid to get him.

There is alot riding on this draft cause of past failures. We probably need 4 guys who can play, and start between now and 2013 from this draft.

[Yuma Cactus]

Originally Posted by RealCowboyfan

My choice would be Kirkpatrick. here's why

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBJVJRfhUEg

This clip didn't show him cover anybody. He plays CB. Gilmore is better at what a CB is paid to do.

[Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Deep_Freeze

Free agency should have some nutty prices next summer, but with dead money coming off and if we let some FAs like Jenkins and Spencer walk, we could make a pretty huge splash if we need it.

Would be great to find that pass rusher, if available and not already drafted by the team (although you can never have too many). What I do want is that space there so if one is available, we can jump on him and pay what needs to be paid to get him.

There is alot riding on this draft cause of past failures. We probably need 4 guys who can play, and start between now and 2013 from this draft.

Yes, the clock is ticking.

We lucked out into a franchise type QB as a UDFA and we got the best defensive player in the NFL over the past 7 years on our roster and we still can't win games consistently.

I hope Jerry did some deep soul searching when his team got off to that 1-7 start in 2010 when he was hoping for a SB berth with the game in Dallas that year. I really hope he finally understood the way he was putting together the team was backwards and had to be corrected. The last draft in 2011 suggests the lessons have sunk in - no major projects were selected, all the guys brought in were football players not athletes looking for a position. We actually drafted an OL in the first and a LB in the second before taking a skill position player. Heck, we didn't draft a kicker at all and still wound up with a great one as a UDFA.

But yes the window is closing on Ware and who knows how long before Romo is put out of commission behind the OLs we have built in front of him. I really do hope for another premium pick at the OL in the second. This is a draft of depth and one where quantity probably matters more than quality due to the lack of high ceiling talent in the upper part of the first round. We need to bolt down if an offer comes. I wouldn't even mind trading out of the first and then using the accumulated picks on 1 OG, 1-2 CBs, 1 DE, and 1 OLB in the first four founds. The reason I don't want to invest more in OL is I am confident in Killa, we have the two FAs and add in one good OG (maybe Kevin Zeitler or Amini Silatolu or Brandon Brooks) and we are good to go without any need to hope that Costa and Nagy are better or Arkin is ready to play.

We need to shore up all those huge spots of weakness where other teams continuously gashed us over the years. Our top end talent is as good as anyone. It has been the scrub starters that have killed us over the last 5 years.

[Deep_Freeze]

Originally Posted by Eskimo

Yes, the clock is ticking.

We lucked out into a franchise type QB as a UDFA and we got the best defensive player in the NFL over the past 7 years on our roster and we still can't win games consistently.

I hope Jerry did some deep soul searching when his team got off to that 1-7 start in 2010 when he was hoping for a SB berth with the game in Dallas that year. I really hope he finally understood the way he was putting together the team was backwards and had to be corrected. The last draft in 2011 suggests the lessons have sunk in - no major projects were selected, all the guys brought in were football players not athletes looking for a position. We actually drafted an OL in the first and a LB in the second before taking a skill position player. Heck, we didn't draft a kicker at all and still wound up with a great one as a UDFA.

[View Full Quote]But yes the window is closing on Ware and who knows how long before Romo is put out of commission behind the OLs we have built in front of him. I really do hope for another premium pick at the OL in the second. This is a draft of depth and one where quantity probably matters more than quality due to the lack of high ceiling talent in the upper part of the first round. We need to bolt down if an offer comes. I wouldn't even mind trading out of the first and then using the accumulated picks on 1 OG, 1-2 CBs, 1 DE, and 1 OLB in the first four founds. The reason I don't want to invest more in OL is I am confident in Killa, we have the two FAs and add in one good OG (maybe Kevin Zeitler or Amini Silatolu or Brandon Brooks) and we are good to go without any need to hope that Costa and Nagy are better or Arkin is ready to play.

We need to shore up all those huge spots of weakness where other teams continuously gashed us over the years. Our top end talent is as good as anyone. It has been the scrub starters that have killed us over the last 5 years.

Yeah that is why I mentioned we need those 4 guys out this draft, and I don't really care what order they are taken in, I just know its harder to get that DE and especially OLB later in this particular draft.

An interior OL, DE, OLB, and CB are just needed out of this draft. Then of course you have safety, WR, TE, ILB, and such but their level of importance are less, except for safety cause he could be a starter from day one.

This really needs to be another really solid draft, cause we can't afford as many misses anymore. And I do hope for help so that we aren't dependent on Jenkins or especially Spencer in 2013.

[Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Deep_Freeze

Yeah that is why I mentioned we need those 4 guys out this draft, and I don't really care what order they are taken in, I just know its harder to get that DE and especially OLB later in this particular draft.

An interior OL, DE, OLB, and CB are just needed out of this draft. Then of course you have safety, WR, TE, ILB, and such but their level of importance are less, except for safety cause he could be a starter from day one.

This really needs to be another really solid draft, cause we can't afford as many misses anymore. And I do hope for help so that we aren't dependent on Jenkins or especially Spencer in 2013.

I have long argued that Spencer should have not been franchised so that we have that cap space to use in the future. I really don't see us contending for the SB this year so I don't mind the growing pains of inserting Albright/Butler in there. I know that we are going to draft an OLB in the first 3 rounds anyway. To me we are just throwing our cap dollars out the window. It hurts doubly since it would be one way of getting back the cap space the league took away (hopefully only temporarily with the arbitrator to rule on the case yet).

I like Jenkins as a player and wouldn't mind re-signing him but you can't tie up that much money at CB unless you are going to press all-day and skimp elsewhere on the D and I really don't think that is a great strategy and may not be so replicable without a Revis on the roster.

[Deep_Freeze]

Originally Posted by Eskimo

I have long argued that Spencer should have not been franchised so that we have that cap space to use in the future. I really don't see us contending for the SB this year so I don't mind the growing pains of inserting Albright/Butler in there. I know that we are going to draft an OLB in the first 3 rounds anyway. To me we are just throwing our cap dollars out the window. It hurts doubly since it would be one way of getting back the cap space the league took away (hopefully only temporarily with the arbitrator to rule on the case yet).

I like Jenkins as a player and wouldn't mind re-signing him but you can't tie up that much money at CB unless you are going to press all-day and skimp elsewhere on the D and I really don't think that is a great strategy and may not be so replicable without a Revis on the roster.

Yeah, Spencer is probably the scariest person on the D, cause if we pay him we don't know what we will get, and this is the reason why he has the tag right now.

I would love for us to be in a long term position to replace Spencer, and Jenkins for that matter, although I don't have as much of a problem with resigning Jenkins, its just the total money at the CB position.

The FO is thinking about this stuff right now, and they know more than us about it as far as the total situation. I do think we can contend, but really, we can't make any mistakes this offseason. Sounds stupid I guess, but this offseason is probably one of the most important of both Ware and Romo's careers.

We need to get them both help, right now.

[28 Joker]

Originally Posted by Deep_Freeze

Free agency should have some nutty prices next summer, but with dead money coming off and if we let some FAs like Jenkins and Spencer walk, we could make a pretty huge splash if we need it.

Would be great to find that pass rusher, if available and not already drafted by the team (although you can never have too many). What I do want is that space there so if one is available, we can jump on him and pay what needs to be paid to get him.

There is alot riding on this draft cause of past failures. We probably need 4 guys who can play, and start between now and 2013 from this draft.

I think Melvin Ingram is your guy to help Ware, but I don't know if he will fall past the Chiefs or Cardinals. Maybe, the Cardinals would prefer Upshaw, because he is a Steelers type player. Ingram would be a headache to game-plan, because he could be used all over the place and could bring heat from multiple places in the defense. I think he could cover and blitz as an inside linebacker, too. Ingram can be used as a Joker. I wonder if it's possible for Ingram to fall to 14, because I think he's built for the 34.

I hope the Cowboys secretly like Ingram, because I keep giving him to Kansas City and Arizona in my mocks. What if they pass for other players or for some other reason?