The I just don't get it Under/Over Rated Players

[xwalker]

Overrated - Ben Jones OC (2nd/3rd) – I just don’t get it. He gets pushed back in the pocket, gets beat off the snap, is often on the ground and looks un-athletic in open space.

Underrated - Philip Blake OC (4th) – Ok, he will 26 to start the season, but why is he rated as a 4th rounder. He is bigger and quicker than Ben Jones both in game footage and at the combine. His bench reps were a little on the low side but he does have slightly longer arms than Jones.

Slightly Overrated - Peter Konz OC (1st) – He is a good player, but is not overly strong or quick.

Overrated - Dre Kirkpatrick CB (Top 20) - Borderline athlete at CB.

Overrated - Leonard Johnson CB (3rd/4th/5th) – Slow 5-9ish CB. Barry Church had better agility numbers.

Underrated - Bruce Irvin OLB (2nd/3rd) - Physically, he is almost a clone of Von Miller. Von Miller was the #2 overall pick in 2011 but Irvin is projected to possibly go in the 3rd round?

Overrated - Dontari Poe DL (Top 10) - Do any of the analysts watch the games?

Underrated - Akiem Hicks DL (5th) - Ok, the level of competition is very low, but he looked like a huge athletic beast in games. He looked good in the Shrine game and in pass-rush drills.

Overrated - Michael Brockers DL (Top 20) – Really? I don’t see the athleticism expected of a top 20 pick either in games or at the combine.

Overrated - Courtney Upshaw OLB/DE (Top 25) – Marginal athlete, short with short arms for the position.

Slightly Overrated - Melvin Ingram OLB (Top 10) – Good athlete that had some exceptional games but is short with short arms.

Underrated - Levy Adcock OT (7th) – I thought he looked OK at LT and good at RT.

Underrated - Ryan Broyles WR (6th) – Ok, he is injured and is not a burner; however, he finished his collegiate career as the NCAA career receptions leader with 349 catches and No. 2 on the NCAA career receiving yards chart with 4,586 yards.

Underrated - Chris Rainey WR (6th) – Ok, some sites have him rated higher. He has terrific speed and agility to be a slot-WR and punt returner.

Underrated - Miles Burris ILB (6th to UDFA) – Plays like his hair is on fire. Has good speed/quickness and strength. (6-2, 240, Forty=4.67*, 3-cone=6.85*, bench=31, vert=37.5)

Underrated - Chris Greenwood (UDFA) – Very small school but big time athlete (6-1, 193, forty=4.37*. vert=43, bj=11-2)

[RS12]

Looks you do get it.

[joseephuss]

Originally Posted by xwalker

Underrated - Ryan Broyles WR (6th) – Ok, he is injured and is not a burner; however, he finished his collegiate career as the NCAA career receptions leader with 349 catches and No. 2 on the NCAA career receiving yards chart with 4,586 yards.

There are tons of guys who finished high up on the list for receptions and receiving yards in college, but did nothing at the pro level. I wouldn't evaluate him based on his career stats, but how he looked and played. He is tough to evaluate because the Big 12 is not a conference full of great defenses and OU runs a wide open system. Also, in recent history OU has not produced many good NFL receivers and they played in the same system as Broyles. The 6th round would be a fine place to draft him.

[Risen Star]

Good thread.

The only thing I'd tell you is you can't just look at college production. You have to determine whether that player has the skill set to carry that production to the pros. The scrap heap is littered with highly productive college players who couldn't play in the NFL.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by joseephuss

There are tons of guys who finished high up on the list for receptions and receiving yards in college, but did nothing at the pro level. I wouldn't evaluate him based on his career stats, but how he looked and played. He is tough to evaluate because the Big 12 is not a conference full of great defenses and OU runs a wide open system. Also, in recent history OU has not produced many good NFL receivers and they played in the same system as Broyles. The 6th round would be a fine place to draft him.

I think he's a 4th rounder at worst. High 2nd round pick without the injury.

[tm1119]

I agree with most. The only 1 that jumped out at me was Kirkpatrick. He's 6'2 and ran a sub 4.5 40 with a 35 inch vertical. He's very athletic, the notion that he has bad hips should have gone out the window a while ago.

[cowboysooner]

Originally Posted by xwalker

Overrated - Ben Jones OC (2nd/3rd) – I just don’t get it. He gets pushed back in the pocket, gets beat off the snap, is often on the ground and looks un-athletic in open space.

Underrated - Philip Blake OC (4th) – Ok, he will 26 to start the season, but why is he rated as a 4th rounder. He is bigger and quicker than Ben Jones both in game footage and at the combine. His bench reps were a little on the low side but he does have slightly longer arms than Jones.

Slightly Overrated - Peter Konz OC (1st) – He is a good player, but is not overly strong or quick.

Overrated - Dre Kirkpatrick CB (Top 20) - Borderline athlete at CB.

Overrated - Leonard Johnson CB (3rd/4th/5th) – Slow 5-9ish CB. Barry Church had better agility numbers.

[View Full Quote]Underrated - Bruce Irvin OLB (2nd/3rd) - Physically, he is almost a clone of Von Miller. Von Miller was the #2 overall pick in 2011 but Irvin is projected to possibly go in the 3rd round?

Overrated - Dontari Poe DL (Top 10) - Do any of the analysts watch the games?

Underrated - Akiem Hicks DL (5th) - Ok, the level of competition is very low, but he looked like a huge athletic beast in games. He looked good in the Shrine game and in pass-rush drills.

Overrated - Michael Brockers DL (Top 20) – Really? I don’t see the athleticism expected of a top 20 pick either in games or at the combine.

Overrated - Courtney Upshaw OLB/DE (Top 25) – Marginal athlete, short with short arms for the position.

Slightly Overrated - Melvin Ingram OLB (Top 10) – Good athlete that had some exceptional games but is short with short arms.

Underrated - Levy Adcock OT (7th) – I thought he looked OK at LT and good at RT.

Underrated - Ryan Broyles WR (6th) – Ok, he is injured and is not a burner; however, he finished his collegiate career as the NCAA career receptions leader with 349 catches and No. 2 on the NCAA career receiving yards chart with 4,586 yards.

Underrated - Chris Rainey WR (6th) – Ok, some sites have him rated higher. He has terrific speed and agility to be a slot-WR and punt returner.

Underrated - Miles Burris ILB (6th to UDFA) – Plays like his hair is on fire. Has good speed/quickness and strength. (6-2, 240, Forty=4.67*, 3-cone=6.85*, bench=31, vert=37.5)

Underrated - Chris Greenwood (UDFA) – Very small school but big time athlete (6-1, 193, forty=4.37*. vert=43, bj=11-2)

Good topic and I agree with many of the players you picked.

I think on Blake he is not going to improve much physically like the younger guys will. You can teach him technique. They also ran a almost exclusively spread at Baylor. I think where he is rated is pretty fair bottom of 3rd to 4th round pick.

I think Rainey is pretty much just a returner in a Ted Ginn type role with possibly a gadget play or 2 from normal offense, but I think he is underrated as a returner for both punts and kicks.

Irvin is the one that has me most confused. It almost has to be a major character or intelligence red flag because by the tape and the measurables. He has tremendous value even if it is just in your nickel and dime packages. He would be a perfect Cowboy because his strengths line up exactly with Spencer's perceived weaknesses.

I understand why Poe and Brockers are going to be picked high. You could be getting a player that should go 3 or 4 in this draft by talent. Teams don't think they can replicate the innate skill sets with other prospects. It is alot like Ware/ JPP or Tyson Jackson, Vernon Gholson. Sometimes those workout and sometimes they don't. I think the new CBA will have teams reaching and cutting after 3 or 4 years without much penalty. I would not expect much instant impact from either player.

I don't expect Ingram in the top 10 because I think he is 3-4 only so he will go to KC, Arizona or Dallas. He could possibly play the LEO in Seattle's hybrid 4-3. He would get swallowed up in a traditional 4-3.

I could not agree with you more on Upshaw. He is too big and slow to play in a 3-4 but I don't think he is an elite edge rusher. He looks like Jamall Anderson the Falcons bust from 4-5 years ago.

[burmafrd]

Brockers has top 5 talent? Not likely

[cds99]

I would be willing to bet anything that bruce irvin Will not last until the 3rd

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by joseephuss

There are tons of guys who finished high up on the list for receptions and receiving yards in college, but did nothing at the pro level. I wouldn't evaluate him based on his career stats, but how he looked and played. He is tough to evaluate because the Big 12 is not a conference full of great defenses and OU runs a wide open system. Also, in recent history OU has not produced many good NFL receivers and they played in the same system as Broyles. The 6th round would be a fine place to draft him.

Originally Posted by Risen Star

Good thread.

The only thing I'd tell you is you can't just look at college production. You have to determine whether that player has the skill set to carry that production to the pros. The scrap heap is littered with highly productive college players who couldn't play in the NFL.

Agree, I generally don't pay much attention to college production, but when a player is #1/#2 all time, I have to give it some merit.

[newlander]

if we draft this guy................

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by cowboysooner

Good topic and I agree with many of the players you picked.

I think on Blake he is not going to improve much physically like the younger guys will. You can teach him technique. They also ran a almost exclusively spread at Baylor. I think where he is rated is pretty fair bottom of 3rd to 4th round pick.

I think Rainey is pretty much just a returner in a Ted Ginn type role with possibly a gadget play or 2 from normal offense, but I think he is underrated as a returner for both punts and kicks.

Irvin is the one that has me most confused. It almost has to be a major character or intelligence red flag because by the tape and the measurables. He has tremendous value even if it is just in your nickel and dime packages. He would be a perfect Cowboy because his strengths line up exactly with Spencer's perceived weaknesses.

[View Full Quote]I understand why Poe and Brockers are going to be picked high. You could be getting a player that should go 3 or 4 in this draft by talent. Teams don't think they can replicate the innate skill sets with other prospects. It is alot like Ware/ JPP or Tyson Jackson, Vernon Gholson. Sometimes those workout and sometimes they don't. I think the new CBA will have teams reaching and cutting after 3 or 4 years without much penalty. I would not expect much instant impact from either player.

I don't expect Ingram in the top 10 because I think he is 3-4 only so he will go to KC, Arizona or Dallas. He could possibly play the LEO in Seattle's hybrid 4-3. He would get swallowed up in a traditional 4-3.

I could not agree with you more on Upshaw. He is too big and slow to play in a 3-4 but I don't think he is an elite edge rusher. He looks like Jamall Anderson the Falcons bust from 4-5 years ago.

Blake
I don't really know exactly what round he should be rated, but IMO, he should be rated closer to Jones/Konz. I keep going back to watch game footage and I just can't understand how Ben Jones is rated higher. Also, if Blake is a 4th rounder then Konz should be a 2nd rounder at best, IMO.

Rainey
Ok, he's probably not that underrated. I'd say early 5th.

Irvin
Agree.

Poe
He just didn't do much against mid-level competition.

Brockers
I really don't get this one. Clifton Geathers has better measureables across the board.
See the comparison here: http://www.walker-texas.com/clifton-geathers.jpg

Ingram
I really like this player, but even top 20 seems really high to me for a player that just does not fit into the general measureables for a 3-4 OLB. I probably expect to much from a top 20 pick.

Upshaw
I guess he is just a product of being on a top rated defense. He would be 8th at best in my list of 3-4 OLB prospects.

[Gaede]

Just one note...

I don't know how Hicks could be underrated. If anything, he's overrated. He didn't even dominate at Regina. Let me be honest, the competition completely and utterly sucks in Canada.

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by Gaede

Just one note...

I don't know how Hicks could be underrated. If anything, he's overrated. He didn't even dominate at Regina. Let me be honest, the competition completely and utterly sucks in Canada.

I agree that the level of competition is low; however, I disagree that he did not dominate. I didn't check his stats, but in the game footage that I watched, he just ran though those Canadian College players almost unimpeded.

I based my evaluation more on the Shrine game and practice/drills before the Shrine game. He has really good burst off the line and good movement skills for a 320 pound man, IMO.

[Sam I Am]

Originally Posted by joseephuss

There are tons of guys who finished high up on the list for receptions and receiving yards in college, but did nothing at the pro level. I wouldn't evaluate him based on his career stats, but how he looked and played. He is tough to evaluate because the Big 12 is not a conference full of great defenses and OU runs a wide open system. Also, in recent history OU has not produced many good NFL receivers and they played in the same system as Broyles. The 6th round would be a fine place to draft him.

He will go well before the sixth round.