Mayock's updated position rankings

[supercowboy8]

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000...content_stream

I wish he would do 3-4 positions and 4-3 positions.

Guard

1. David DeCastro, Stanford
2. Kevin Zeitler, Wisconsin
3. Amini Silatolu, Midwestern State
4. Kelechi Osemele, Iowa State
5. Brandon Brooks, Miami (Ohio)

Center

1. Peter Konz, Wisconsin
2. Philip Blake, Baylor
3. Ben Jones, Georgia
4. David Molk, Michigan
5. Michael Brewster, Ohio State

Defensive End

1. Quinton Coples, North Carolina
2. Courtney Upshaw, Alabama
3. Nick Perry, USC
4. Chandler Jones, Syracuse
5. Vinny Curry, Marshall

Defensive Tackle

1. Fletcher Cox, Mississippi State
2. Jerel Worthy, Michigan State
3. Michael Brockers, LSU
4. Dontari Poe, Memphis
5t. Kendall Reyes, Connecticut
5t. Devon Still, Penn State

Outside Linebacker

1. Melvin Ingram, South Carolina
2. Shea McClellin, Boise State
3. Whitney Mercilus, Illinois
4. Andre Branch, Clemson
5. Ronnell Lewis, Oklahoma

Cornerback

1. Morris Claiborne, LSU
2. Stephon Gilmore, South Carolina
3. Dre Kirkpatrick, Alabama
4. Janoris Jenkins, North Alabama
5. Josh Robinson, Central Florida

Safety

1. Mark Barron, Alabama
2. Harrison Smith, Notre Dame
3. Brandon Taylor, LSU
4. DeQuan Menzie, Alabama
5. Phillip Thomas, Syracuse

[Woods]

Shea McClellin really has shot up the boards.

I listened to the audio that Mayock did, and he thinks he could even go end of Round 1 now.

As for Poe, as many of us have suggested, the production and skills don't match. That's what Mayock also mentioned.

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by Woods

Shea McClellin really has shot up the boards.

I listened to the audio that Mayock did, and he thinks he could even go end of Round 1 now.

As for Poe, as many of us have suggested, the production and skills don't match. That's what Mayock also mentioned.

yep I never jumped on that Poe train. I seen him in person play and didn't see anything great.

[johnnyd]

thanks for posting.. i dont care how we do it but i want Shea McClellin on this team. Dont think he will be there at 45 anymore so we would have to get creative.

[Woods]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

yep I never jumped on that Poe train. I seen him in person play and didn't see anything great.

By the way, I agree with you that I really hope we don't draft Poe, Brockers, or Upshaw.

[RS12]

Originally Posted by johnnyd

thanks for posting.. i dont care how we do it but i want Shea McClellin on this team. Dont think he will be there at 45 anymore so we would have to get creative.

Has some Clay Matthews in him. I like him alot.

[RamziD]

If Blake is going to be viewed by most as the 2nd best OC in the draft, we may have to take him in the 2nd. Konz will go in Rd 1, and I just don't see 55-60 picks between the #1 and #2 rated OC. If we don't end up with either Konz or Blake, I will be very disappointed.

[marchetta]

Originally Posted by johnnyd

thanks for posting.. i dont care how we do it but i want Shea McClellin on this team. Dont think he will be there at 45 anymore so we would have to get creative.

I agree completely!

[DFWJC]

Originally Posted by RamziD

If Blake is going to be viewed by most as the 2nd best OC in the draft, we may have to take him in the 2nd. Konz will go in Rd 1, and I just don't see 55-60 picks between the #1 and #2 rated OC. If we don't end up with either Konz or Blake, I will be very disappointed.

I hear you, but you don't draft a person who is 3rd round value a full round early just because he's rated by someone as 2nd best at his position. It may be that the 2nd best still means that 3rd round is his true value.

[FootballCorner]

Originally Posted by Woods

Shea McClellin really has shot up the boards.

I listened to the audio that Mayock did, and he thinks he could even go end of Round 1 now.

As for Poe, as many of us have suggested, the production and skills don't match. That's what Mayock also mentioned.

I think the idea of Poe going top 20 is a little crazy and felt that way when he said it. I have him as my top 3-4 NT guy and top DT, but that is based on where he is in 2-3 seasons, not today. Cox is pretty close, but I think he is more of a 4-3 guy. Not sure I would take either guy in the top 20.

The thing with Poe that many discredit, the coaching staff at Memphis was fired this past season, late November, early December. The head coach was a 1st time HC that was known for recruiting. He was there 3 seasons, all of Poe's tenure. All the coaches under him were trending down in their careers, so I really question how much he was taught. Poe worked at Athletes' Performance pre-combine and was there with Da'John Harris of USC. In an interview, he stated that Harris had taught him several techniques for playing different styles that he had never seen before. I found that statement a little troubling. I mean, in a few weeks Harris, a player, is teaching him stuff his college DL coach missed in 3 seasons.

The things I like about Poe, thick legs, big backside, squatty. He anchors well, does not often get blown back, plays on the other side of the line a lot. He shows the ability to split the double team, does not do it often enough, but needs better hand play. Real raw. Has to get with a DL coach, maybe a veteran unit, that will push him. He has great character, hard worker. He played on a defense really devoid of talent. Some games were hard to watch. Arkansas State....played 85 snaps. Eight five snaps. Most defenses play 60 a game. Most NTs play 40. They worked the outside, ran the edges, forced him to move, went away from him. Just had their way with the rest of the defense. Against Miss State, they doubled him the early part of the game. Cut him. Locked him up with a single blocker and ear holed him. They just roughed him up early. Gave him extra attention. They threw the edges, ran off tackle. By the later part of the first half, they had wore him out. I think they ran for over 300 yards, threw for 300 more. SMU did the same thing, quick hitters to the WRs and ran off tackle. Forced him to run. Used the OL to dig at him, chipped him, hit him. Just nicked at him all game while they worked the edges.

In all that, he went as hard late in most games as he did early. Who does that? You are getting beaten all over the field. The defense is not putting up much of a fight and you have been getting the business, yet you keep coming. Crazy.

I may be completely off base on this one and it happens to everyone, but I think the kid simply loves football. He is an elite athlete. He flashes those great abilities, especially great power. He is just unrefined and needs a ton of technique work. The thing is, IF the light comes on for this guy, his upside is tremendous. He has everything you want in a DT. He just has to harness it and put it together. If he can't, he is a colossal bust. If he can, he will make some GM look like a genius. I do not see much middle ground here. He either gets it or he is doing something else in 5 seasons.

[RamziD]

Originally Posted by DFWJC

I hear you, but you don't draft a person who is 3rd round value a full round early just because he's rated by someone as 2nd best at his position. It may be that the 2nd best still means that 3rd round is his true value.

I have a feeling he will be rated by many as 2nd best and will go before we pick in the 3rd. I just think there's a big gap between Konz/Blake and Jones, Brewster, Molk, etc. Those 2 are starting-quality centers and we currently don't have a starting OC on our roster.

[arglebargle]

Originally Posted by FootballCorner

I think the idea of Poe going top 20 is a little crazy and felt that way when he said it. I have him as my top 3-4 NT guy and top DT, but that is based on where he is in 2-3 seasons, not today. Cox is pretty close, but I think he is more of a 4-3 guy. Not sure I would take either guy in the top 20.

[View Full Quote]The thing with Poe that many discredit, the coaching staff at Memphis was fired this past season, late November, early December. The head coach was a 1st time HC that was known for recruiting. He was there 3 seasons, all of Poe's tenure. All the coaches under him were trending down in their careers, so I really question how much he was taught. Poe worked at Athletes' Performance pre-combine and was there with Da'John Harris of USC. In an interview, he stated that Harris had taught him several techniques for playing different styles that he had never seen before. I found that statement a little troubling. I mean, in a few weeks Harris, a player, is teaching him stuff his college DL coach missed in 3 seasons.

The things I like about Poe, thick legs, big backside, squatty. He anchors well, does not often get blown back, plays on the other side of the line a lot. He shows the ability to split the double team, does not do it often enough, but needs better hand play. Real raw. Has to get with a DL coach, maybe a veteran unit, that will push him. He has great character, hard worker. He played on a defense really devoid of talent. Some games were hard to watch. Arkansas State....played 85 snaps. Eight five snaps. Most defenses play 60 a game. Most NTs play 40. They worked the outside, ran the edges, forced him to move, went away from him. Just had their way with the rest of the defense. Against Miss State, they doubled him the early part of the game. Cut him. Locked him up with a single blocker and ear holed him. They just roughed him up early. Gave him extra attention. They threw the edges, ran off tackle. By the later part of the first half, they had wore him out. I think they ran for over 300 yards, threw for 300 more. SMU did the same thing, quick hitters to the WRs and ran off tackle. Forced him to run. Used the OL to dig at him, chipped him, hit him. Just nicked at him all game while they worked the edges.

In all that, he went as hard late in most games as he did early. Who does that? You are getting beaten all over the field. The defense is not putting up much of a fight and you have been getting the business, yet you keep coming. Crazy.

I may be completely off base on this one and it happens to everyone, but I think the kid simply loves football. He is an elite athlete. He flashes those great abilities, especially great power. He is just unrefined and needs a ton of technique work. The thing is, IF the light comes on for this guy, his upside is tremendous. He has everything you want in a DT. He just has to harness it and put it together. If he can't, he is a colossal bust. If he can, he will make some GM look like a genius. I do not see much middle ground here. He either gets it or he is doing something else in 5 seasons.

Best argument I have seen for him yet. Not sure I would buy into it without a lot of due diligence. And if there are no coaches worth their salt from his college era, I don't know who you'd go to for that.

Interesting, at least.

[Teague31]

No Bruce Irvin in there...

[fanfromvirginia]

Originally Posted by johnnyd

thanks for posting.. i dont care how we do it but i want Shea McClellin on this team. Dont think he will be there at 45 anymore so we would have to get creative.

It wouldn't have to be that creative. We could trade way down, near the end of round one and take Shea. If he's gone, you could grab Konz. If the FO decides they like him, he could be had, and then some. Either way you get a great player plusvwhatever you net from the trade.

[FootballCorner]

Originally Posted by Teague31

No Bruce Irvin in there...

I think Bruce Irvin will end up being a pretty good player. Another risk because he has to develop in some areas, specifically the run game. But, he went to college as a safety and it was reported in high school he ran a 4.38 forty. He has excellent speed. He has excellent change of direction. I do not know if anyone paid much attention to his shuttle, which I think is an excellent measure of COD, but it is better than ANY LB, SS, and only 1 FS matched it. Of the CBs, only 6 had better shuttle numbers. So, if you need to teach him to turn and cover a TE, he has the speed and length to do it.

Right now, he is a situational pass rusher. I see a lot of Aldon Smith in him. He will need time to develop against the run, but he could be really special.

I like him a lot. He had 8.5 sacks in his final season. He had 14 the year before. His last season at Juco he had 16 sacks. He can get to the QB. Oddly enough, the Juco coach needed some help at DE and Irvin was playing safety. In practice, he told him to come up and give it a shot. He blisters the LT a couple times for sacks and the rest is history.