After 2 failed Mocks... - Dallas Cowboys Forum

a_minimalist · 04-04-2012

This is what I came up with. I had to include my 1st round wish.

1st Round – David DeCastro – G/C
2nd Round – Harrison Smith – SS
3rd Round - Bruce Irvin – OLB
4th Round - Greg Childs – WR
4th Round - Ron Brooks – CB
5th Round – Akiem Hicks – DE
6th Round - TJ Barnes – DT
7th Round - Nick Provo – TE

jterrell · 04-04-2012

hate to be overly harsh but I ignored the other drafts you have admitted were rather fail. this is very similar to those....

1st Round – David DeCastro – G/C --- lots of people love DeCastro and he would be a day 1 starter. But is he a large enough improvement over Nagy/Bern/r2 draftee at OC to make this worth pick 14? I argue no but could live with this. I think there is great value at OC with pick 45. And Konz might be a better pure OC yet available into the 20s.

2nd Round – Harrison Smith – SS --- Smith is somewhat intriguing but 45 seems fairly high for a non-elite safety. And you have now went two traditionally undervalued/underpaid positions. Dallas got 3 projected starters in free agency at OG/S for about 9 million in cap cost next year.

3rd Round - Bruce Irvin – OLB --- You seem to be making an all pet cat draft and that is probably why they are failing. Irvin is a solid value in R3 but he is about 15 pounds lighter than our starting OLB. In our defense he would be a good speed and coverage OLB but he could be blocked by TEs and RBs at his current size.

4th Round - Greg Childs – WR --- I like the ARK WRs a good deal but Childs seems least of a fit to me. Dallas does love them some big WRs though so they may well prefer Childs to the smaller guys.

4th Round - Ron Brooks – CB --- Not sure he is drafted anywhere near this high. He started 3 games in college. Obviously LSU has the talent to make that reasonable but still r4 seems high to me considering the very deep CB pool.

5th Round – Akiem Hicks – DE --- Common pick assigned to us. Could definitely go in this area. Very low in draft to address this need though. Weighs around 320 so probably a DT/NT player. No where near the athlete the other 320 pound guy we'd play at DE are.

6th Round - TJ Barnes – DT --- Complete project player. Came out of HS as an OT prospect. Seems a lesser version of Hicks.

7th Round - Nick Provo – TE --- Interesting H-Back type. Can definitely catch the ball. At 237 pounds he doesn't replace any Bennett blocking though.

End of the day I would pencil in DeCastro as a day 1 starter but that's it. I think Smith would eventually be a starter but the other guys are situational at best to me and many would struggle to make the opening week roster.

a_minimalist · 04-04-2012

Well, I can definitely appreciate your point of view. You can be as harsh as you want. I'm not a little baby and can take criticism.

I watched the DB combine on the NFL network in entirety since I knew it was such an important need. IMO, Harrison Smith is an elite safety. Granted, the combine doesn't guarantee ****. I think he is a steal though. He might not even be around at #45.

My previous mocks failed because I incorporated trades for additional picks. I did a horrible job with that. This mock I can comfortably stand behind.

RS12 · 04-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_minimalist

I watched the DB combine on the NFL network in entirety since I knew it was such an important need. IMO, Harrison Smith is an elite safety. Granted, the combine doesn't guarantee ****. I think he is a steal though. He might not even be around at #45.

Elite players are not made at the combine. He showed good measurables. Elite players show on film. To me he might be an upgrade in the Eric Weddle mold based on what he did at ND, not an elite safety. I like him a round lower. Would rather improve the line on both sides of the ball rounds one and two.

a_minimalist · 04-04-2012

I forget who it was and whether it was on ESPN or the NFL network but last night a good point was made about him. With the proliferation of 2 TE's on any given down Harrison Smith would do a much better job of covering one than someone with the size of Mark Barron.

cowboysooner · 04-04-2012

If Dallas decides they are keeping Spencer and Jenkins long term then it is a good draft though it will put an enormous strain on the cap in the future by taking 2 cheap positions with premium picks.

Irvin is a great fit as a platoon player with Spencer and in special packages. Honestly Dallas would probably use him better than anyone if we keep Spencer.

I like Harrison Smith more than most but I don't think he is a free safety and neither is Sensenbaugh at his best. I don't think this draft has a highly rated center or free safety. Some will obviously come out of it but there is not a consensus great player at either position.

cowboysooner · 04-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by RS12

Elite players are not made at the combine. He showed good measurables. Elite players show on film. To me he might be an upgrade in the Eric Weddle mold based on what he did at ND, not an elite safety. I like him a round lower. Would rather improve the line on both sides of the ball rounds one and two.

If he is 90% of Weddle then that is a great pick. Weddle is a top 5 safety.

jterrell · 04-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_minimalist

I forget who it was and whether it was on ESPN or the NFL network but last night a good point was made about him. With the proliferation of 2 TE's on any given down Harrison Smith would do a much better job of covering one than someone with the size of Mark Barron.

Dallas has Bruce Carter and Sean Lee for 2nd TEs and Sensabaugh covers TE's very well.

We need a true center fielder who takes away deep stuff across the board.

I don't think you were getting terrible value at your picks I just think you were getting terrible value relative to Cowboys needs. If you check out Hostile's roster break down thread and assign positional need values then look at possible selections in the draft I think you'll formulate a stronger mock.

JBell523 · 04-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by jterrell

hate to be overly harsh but I ignored the other drafts you have admitted were rather fail. this is very similar to those....

1st Round – David DeCastro – G/C --- lots of people love DeCastro and he would be a day 1 starter. But is he a large enough improvement over Nagy/Bern/r2 draftee at OC to make this worth pick 14? I argue no but could live with this. I think there is great value at OC with pick 45. And Konz might be a better pure OC yet available into the 20s.

2nd Round – Harrison Smith – SS --- Smith is somewhat intriguing but 45 seems fairly high for a non-elite safety. And you have now went two traditionally undervalued/underpaid positions. Dallas got 3 projected starters in free agency at OG/S for about 9 million in cap cost next year.

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The problem with your analysis is that you're expecting us to get multiple starters from this draft class from the get-go. That's not realistic.

What is realistic is expecting your first rounder to be a starter immediately, and your 2nd and 3rd round guys to be contributors - even if they aren't starters.

Just because we signed JAG's to fill needs in the off-season doesn't mean we won't or shouldn't address those in the draft. If a highly graded Guard or Safety on our draft board is available at #14 or #45, I doubt we pass on them just because we addressed those positions in the off-season. Guys like Pool, Livings, and Bernadeau are temporary fixes that were signed to give us flexibility on draft day, not as permanent solutions. They're security blankets so we're not forced to reach.

Harrison Smith would compete for a starting job this year. Brodney Pool is by no stretch of the imagination a permanent solution at safety. He's been a JAG in his career thus far and has had problems staying healthy. If Smith doesn't crack the opening day line-up, he'd still see a lot of action IMO and be used a lot like Church last season. Not to mention the games where Pool will be hurt and he would step in and start.

Irvin not having protypical size at this moment isn't an issue, since he would likely only be used in pass rushing situations his first season.

Solid Draft OP. You address three needs with the first 3 picks, and they'd all be able to contribute THIS year. I'd like to see us go DL with one of the first three picks, but this team has so many holes that you can't address them all with one draft. All you can hope for is to get as many talented guys as you can.

cowboysooner · 04-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBell523

The problem with your analysis is that you're expecting us to get multiple starters from this draft class from the get-go. That's not realistic.

What is realistic is expecting your first rounder to be a starter immediately, and your 2nd and 3rd round guys to be contributors - even if they aren't starters.

Just because we signed JAG's to fill needs in the off-season doesn't mean we won't or shouldn't address those in the draft. If a highly graded Guard or Safety on our draft board is available at #14 or #45, I doubt we pass on them just because we addressed those positions in the off-season. Guys like Pool, Livings, and Bernadeau are temporary fixes that were signed to give us flexibility on draft day, not as permanent solutions. They're security blankets so we're not forced to reach.

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Positional value, the salary cap, free agency and draft depth at a position are very real and important things. They need to be considered when building a team.