Best Pass Rushers in the 2012 Draft - Dallas Cowboys Forum

wittenacious · 04-13-2012

Quinton Coples: Looks tired, or maybe high, or too cool for school ... something's off ... not a fan of the guy, myself ... don't trust that he'll be all-in, especially after getting paid.

Nick Perry: "... he shows you a lot of things that LaMarr Woodley ... he has those characteristics." ... "He can tackle the quarterback ..." Eh, sounds like he's got some unevenness to his game.

Melvin Ingram: "It seems like Melvin Ingram has been just descending the entire time" ... "really short arms" ... "but he's so athletic" ... is he worth our 1st Round pick? Not sure. ??? Seems there are better choices to me.

Whitney Mercilus: Intriguing player to me ... I like the "look" of the guy's game, but need him to be a 3-down player, not just a 3rd down pass rusher, to get my total confidence ... is he just a "one year wonder?" Can't help but think he's more than that.

Vinny Curry: Not a 1st Rounder, but an interesting prospect ... "quick off the ball" ... "explosive off the ball" ... "natural feel for rushing the quarterback" ... top of the 2nd Round, maybe? ... is he worth a Cowboys pick in the 2nd?

Mike Martin: Per Mayock: "... a guy a little bit down the line" ... "... he's put together like you can't believe, this is not a sloppy 300 pounds."

More food for thought. Should we have any particular interest in any of these discussed pass rushers? I like Whitney Mercilus. What do you guys say?

johnnyd · 04-13-2012

Quinton Coples: Looks tired, or maybe high, or too cool for school ... something's off ... not a fan of the guy, myself ... don't trust that he'll be all-in, especially after getting paid.

Agreed , plus those 2 arm brand things gross me out.

Eskimo · 04-13-2012

I don't think this is a great pass rush draft and who ends up being the best player is far from certain. I do think that those who are counting Coples out are being too quick to rush to judgment on a kid who probably had a messed up mind this year and possesses incredible upside. This is that rare guy who has the frame and strength to play 3-4 DE but also the explosivness and finesse to rush the passer. Guys like this don't come around too often and I really think he is hard to pass up. I remember people had very similar conversations about Calais Campbell after his Senior year with motor concerns and what would happen to him in the pros.

The other two guys that I like in this draft are Bruce Irvin and Mercilus Whitney. Both of these guys have great motors and great stories. I think they have a lot of hunger and will excel in the pros with all the adversity they have overcome in their lives. The light has really come on for both of them and both are great athletes with natural passrush instincts.

I still think this is a weak draft in impact players but has enormous depth and we need to trade down to spread out our options so we hit on more picks in the end. This draft is deep well into the 4th round.

Cowboy Junkie · 04-13-2012

Bruce Irvin
Mercilus Whitney

TheDallasDon · 04-13-2012

theogt · 04-13-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eskimo

I don't think this is a great pass rush draft and who ends up being the best player is far from certain.

It's heavy the in first round, but very light in later rounds for sure.

cowboy_ron · 04-13-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by wittenacious

Quinton Coples: Looks tired, or maybe high, or too cool for school ... something's off ... not a fan of the guy, myself ... don't trust that he'll be all-in, especially after getting paid.

Nick Perry: "... he shows you a lot of things that LaMarr Woodley ... he has those characteristics." ... "He can tackle the quarterback ..." Eh, sounds like he's got some unevenness to his game.

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I would love Curry in the 2nd

theogt · 04-13-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboy_ron

I would love Curry in the 2nd

Seems like a pure 4-3 DE to me. Not sure I want him roaming around too much. Put his hand in the dirt and let him push people around.

TheDallasDon · 04-13-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by theogt

Seems like a pure 4-3 DE to me. Not sure I want him roaming around too much. Put his hand in the dirt and let him push people around.

I like Curry as OLB but would rather grab B.Irvin.......who is my favorite LB prospect this year.

Eskimo · 04-13-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by theogt

It's heavy the in first round, but very light in later rounds for sure.

A lot of the picks are thought to be late first rounders to early second rounders amongst the pass rushers. You have to remember that most people aren't expecting Cox, Brockers or Melvin Ingram to be very good pass rushers, just good all-around players. Those guys are all solidly first rounders.

In the second third of the first round you have Coples and Upshaw. Coples can be big-time but Upshaw has a low ceiling as a pass rusher, IMO.

In the latter thrid of the first round to the mid second round there are lots of guys like McLellin, Branch, Hightower, Curry and Whitney.

After that there is Bruce Irvin and a couple of others like Jake Bequette and then there isn't much after that.

As usual, if you want to get your pass rusher you have to take a shot in the first two rounds unless you get lucky and Irvin drops into the 3rd.

It just irks me so much that we can't hit on a great pass rusher later in the draft for so many years now. We have drafted one guy in 30 years with more than one double digit sack year. Only one guy and that is despite 3-4 vs. 4-3 and several different defensive and head coaches. Of course there were only 2 GMs thoughout - Schramm and Jerry Jones.

Eskimo · 04-13-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDallasDon

I like Curry as OLB but would rather grab B.Irvin.......who is my favorite LB prospect this year.

Irvin is really only a nickel DE pass rusher who we hope to convert into an OLB at this point.

He is definitely a project who won't play OLB much his first year.

Despite that he is worth the pick if we think he can put up double digit sacks because those kinds of guys are so hard to find in the draft and then don't hit FA often and then cost a boatload of cash to acquire.

theogt · 04-14-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eskimo

A lot of the picks are thought to be late first rounders to early second rounders amongst the pass rushers. You have to remember that most people aren't expecting Cox, Brockers or Melvin Ingram to be very good pass rushers, just good all-around players. Those guys are all solidly first rounders.

In the second third of the first round you have Coples and Upshaw. Coples can be big-time but Upshaw has a low ceiling as a pass rusher, IMO.

In the latter thrid of the first round to the mid second round there are lots of guys like McLellin, Branch, Hightower, Curry and Whitney.

After that there is Bruce Irvin and a couple of others like Jake Bequette and then there isn't much after that.

As usual, if you want to get your pass rusher you have to take a shot in the first two rounds unless you get lucky and Irvin drops into the 3rd.

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You just named 10 pass rushers that could go in the first round and even forgot Nick Perry who may end up being the best of the group. That was my point.

If someone isn't expecting Cox or Ingram to be good pass rushers at the next level, I'd stop paying attention to them.

Eskimo · 04-14-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by theogt

You just named 10 pass rushers that could go in the first round and even forgot Nick Perry who may end up being the best of the group. That was my point.

If someone isn't expecting Cox or Ingram to be good pass rushers at the next level, I'd stop paying attention to them.

I'm talking double digit sacks guys and that's the general concensus from what I've been hearing. There doesn't appear to be a true elite type pass rush talent in those whole draft according to the experts. There are some boom-bust guys with that potential like Whitney and Irvin. However, the front 7 guys expected to go in the first half of the draft - Cox, Ingram, Kuechly - none of them are thought to be consistent double digit sack guys.

On Cox they are almost certainly right in a 3-4 scheme as it is the rare DE who gets more than 6 sacks a year in that scheme. However, I agree that Cox will be an upper echelon 3-4 DE pass rusher and probably put up 5-7 sacks per year and I would be happy with the pick at #14 but everyone seems to think he will be gone before our pick.

As far as Ingram, I like him a lot. I'd also take him if he fell to #14. I think there is a decent chance he can be an 8-sack per year guy but I am skeptical that he ever ends up being a double digit guy due to lack of elite explosion and lack of length. I do love him as an all-around guy and for the versatility he would offer a creative DC like Ryan.

As for Kuechly he seems like a Sean Lee clone. I'd be happy with the pick except we already have 3 young ILBs on the roster and I don't think he fits on our roster as a SOLB.

Anyhow, there are contenders for pass rushers but they are all risky and a bunch of them are probably reasonable value at the bottom of the first to the middle of the second (yes Perry should have been included in my earlier list but I sometimes forget about him as the concensus seems to be he will be a 4-3 RDE only).

theogt · 04-14-2012

I expect guys like Ingram, Perry and McClellin to be double digit sack guys. They may not be, but if thats the case they simply failed to meet expectations. If your point is that this class is weak because there's no DeMarcus Ware in it, I don't really think thats a fair measuring stick.

burmafrd · 04-14-2012

just because 10 are drafted in the first round does not mean they deserve to be.

THis is a very weak draft for PASS RUSHERS. And that is the point.

Double digit pass rushers are rare and frankly I don't really see ANY in this draft.

There are maybe a couple of people who should be drafted from the middle of the round and later. There are NONE that are top 15 picks. IF you are looking at past years.