Peter King on KTCK

[CashMan]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

I sat in the draft room with the Cowboys in the year they drafted Roy Williams. The popular theory is that Jerry is a dictator in the War Room, but in truth he was just a information gatherer. Parcells would tell you Jerry didn't really force his players on him too often. Jerry is making the choices based on the reports Ciskowski and Jason Garrett are giving him. I'm not defending how Jerry does things, because I would hire a more powerful GM in his shoes, but these Cowboys' drafts just aren't Jerry's drafts.

Does he put more stock in what the HC says who he wants or what the scouts say? Does it vary from coach to coach?



Perhaps I answered my own question. Campo who is a secondary guy was the HC when Williams was drafted.

[Chocolate Lab]

King obviously angling for another enormous tub of extra-butter popcorn.

[InmanRoshi]

I think it's a bit disingenuous to say Jerry doesn't highly effect the draft. Look at all the crazy trading back we've done over the last 15 years. There's some pretty established patterns in drafting. By my count we've gone through six head coaches and three different heads of scouting, but Jerry remains the constant.

[junk]

Originally Posted by Bluestang

Well that didn't take long did it?


I'm not even gonna take thread in that direction junk, I really have nothing to say on this anymore than the other countless times it been discussed.

Originally Posted by Randy White

the spinning never ends..

I think the only thing that's spinned more in the history of time is planet Earth.

Well, whatever. I guess if you guys want to stick your head in the sand about it, that's fine.

I don't see how it is spin. Look at the team's performance for the last 15 years. Doesn't take much common sense to see the issue.

What the saying about the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

Those defending Jerry remind a bit of those that would defend QC back in the day. "You know a long interception on 3rd down is almost like a punt"

[junk]

Originally Posted by Chocolate Lab

King obviously angling for another enormous tub of extra-butter popcorn.

That was a pretty funny scene.

[junk]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

I think it's a bit disingenuous to say Jerry doesn't highly effect the draft. Look at all the crazy trading back we've done over the last 15 years. There's some pretty established patterns in drafting. By my count we've gone through six head coaches and three different heads of scouting, but Jerry remains the constant.

Well, exactly. Common sense would tend to push you in that direction.

[Doomsday101]

I think there is a lot of input between the coach and the scout before picks are made and a consensus is formed leading up to the draft. In the end though Jerry hires these coaches and he hires these scouts so good or bad it is Jerry who ultimately has to take responsibility.

Which goes back to a point I have made many time about picking and choosing who credit or blame on any player picked. For someone to claim any good player well that is the coaches and pick of any bad player that is Jerry pick is laughable fact it good and bad falls on Jerry

[supercowboy8]

jump up and get Barron at 11 if he is there, no reason to sit a wait and watch another team take your guy at 11,12, or 13.

[cowboy_ron]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

If Dallas wants to move up, they'll be contacting KC at 11 because they want to move the pick. They have a bunch of similarly graded players, and they won't ask for a lot to move back to 14. Dallas could move up there and get Barron, because he seems to be the apple of the Cowboys eye.


I think the Cowboys biggest needs are S and CB, even after Carr. Most teams have now realized that the future of the NFL is most of the good offenses are going to throw 65% of the time. People ask why the Seahawks would take Barron with Chancellor and Thomas already at S, it's because they lined up in their nickel defense in 65% of their snaps last year. Even if he just played nickel packages as a rookie, he would still play 2/3 of their defensive snaps.

[View Full Quote]Poe might be my most overrated player, and I know guys in NFL Front Offices who like the kid. I just don't think he was a good enough college player. I haven't watched every snap of his college career, but I know people who have and they really soured on him based on what they've seen.


I'm hearing a lot of Janoris Jenkins might sneak into the back of the 1st round. Teams are trying to convince themselves on him because he's just so good.

I sat in the draft room with the Cowboys in the year they drafted Roy Williams. The popular theory is that Jerry is a dictator in the War Room, but in truth he was just a information gatherer. Parcells would tell you Jerry didn't really force his players on him too often. Jerry is making the choices based on the reports Ciskowski and Jason Garrett are giving him. I'm not defending how Jerry does things, because I would hire a more powerful GM in his shoes, but these Cowboys' drafts just aren't Jerry's drafts.

I agree that S and CB are needs to be filled, I just don't think it's as high of a priority as getting a pocket collapsing disruptor on the DLine...if you have that the QB don't really have time to get the ball that far downfield and you can go with a little lesser talent at that point if you have the disruptor to help Ware out and keep the QB on the run.

[mschmidt64]

There's no spinning going on.

King stated some simple facts. Jerry is the final decision maker here.

Anyone who denies that fact has an agenda. He's stated it himself numerous times. It's a straight up lie to claim that he's not.

It's not interesting, we already knew everything King said. I don't recall anyone claiming that Jerry never listened to his scouts, we know he does that.

But its obviously better to have a final decision maker who is a football expert, which Jerry isn't.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

jump up and get Barron at 11 if he is there, no reason to sit a wait and watch another team take your guy at 11,12, or 13.

Reminds me of that Gil Brandt once said. If you like a guy a lot then you go get him. Barron has not been one of my mock picks but if the scouts and coaches feel that strong about him and you need to move 3 spots to do it then make it happen.

[CIWhitefish]

Originally Posted by junk

Agreed. This scenario doesn't really jive with the scenarios laid out as fact by certain people around here either.



Well, he isn't really a real GM. Dallas has won 1 playoff game in 15 years.

Something is broke and I'll continue to argue that having a GM (and Director of Player Personnel) who have no background in personnel guiding the talent acquistion process is a problem.

Not sure why you (and others) take such an issue with that.

We could certainly discuss the merits of Ciskowski or Garrett's inputs, but we never really seem to get that far.

This reminds me of something that has always bothered me. I am not saying Jerry is good or bad because he's both. However, I have never understood why Jerry doesn't at least get credit for his experience. He's been GM since he bought the team so I would say he does have a background in talent acquistion today. One can argue his effectiveness but he's had to learn something about the process in his time as GM, no? I agree that being owner and GM is not the best way to go and having someone who is only the GM would be preferrable. However I have not subscribed to the "football guy" or "background/experience" argument.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by mschmidt64

There's no spinning going on.

King stated some simple facts. Jerry is the final decision maker here.

Anyone who denies that fact has an agenda. He's stated it himself numerous times. It's a straight up lie to claim that he's not.

It's not interesting, we already knew everything King said. I don't recall anyone claiming that Jerry never listened to his scouts, we know he does that.

But its obviously better to have a final decision maker who is a football expert, which Jerry isn't.

Sure when a consensus is not reached Jerry is the tie breaking vote. Much of the time there is agreement and a tie breaking vote is not needed but on occasions where a consensus can't be reach Jerry will cast the vote.

You don't have to like it but it is the way it is but Jerry is not just running about making picks on his own

[Randy White]

Originally Posted by junk

Well, whatever. I guess if you guys want to stick your head in the sand about it, that's fine. I don't see how it is spin. Look at the team's performance for the last 15 years. Doesn't take much common sense to see the issue. What the saying about the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? Those defending Jerry remind a bit of those that would defend QC back in the day. "You know a long interception on 3rd down is almost like a punt"

The Steelers went 16 years in between participating in a Superbowl. It took them an additional 11 years to win it again, for a grand total of 27 years in between their 4th and 5th SB victories. They've won 2 and gone to 3 over the past 6 years. That after winning 4 in 10 years during the 70's, while winning NO Championship in the previous 30 years before that. All of them under basically the same ownership and pretty much the same organizational structure.


The SF 49ers haven't been to a SB since Eddie Debartolo owned them. Their only 5 NFL championships, all within a 15 years span, in their 60+ years came under his watch. Was he the reason ?

It took the Green Bay Packers nearly 30 years in between Superbowl appearances, then another 12 years after that for the next one and a grand total of 44 years in between SB victories. The team is publicly owned.

The NY Giants took 10 years in between SB appearances, 18 years in between SB victories, all under the same ownership and organizational structure.


Here's the breaking news from all of that:

Winning, or even participating in, the Superbowl is NOT easy, there is NO blue print for it, and no ONE person is responsible for it ( or preventing it from happening ).

Over the past 48 hours there was a very well respected SB winning general manager, a very well respected SB winning heachcoach, and now a respected national writer stating the same thing about Jerry Jones, directly and indirectly.

But of course, the ones with their heads in the sand are those of us who chose to see REALITY as oppossed to believe some made up story that neatly fits personal agendas.

[mschmidt64]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

Sure when a consensus is not reached Jerry is the tie breaking vote.

I believe he's more than that.

I don't think he always overrules his scouts or anything. But I think he does more than just tiebreak.

But even if that's all he did, I'd rather a real football man breaking those ties. He's still the Final Decision Maker. Like I said, he's said it himself. No decision is made from the socks to the jocks without his final stamp of approval.

That means that his influence permeates the organization. There is no way his tendencies and preferences aren't manifested in our moves. It's impossible.

You don't have to like it but it is the way it is but Jerry is not just running about making picks on his own

I'm not claiming that he is running around making picks on his own.

But I still don't like what the arrangement is. We are shorthanded by not having a legit football man. A Ron Wolf, a Jerry Reese, a Thomas Dimitroff, etc.