*** CowboysZone Feedback Thread ***

[CowboyMike]

Let me go on record that I do not agree with Superpunk at all in regards to what merits a ban. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum compared to him on that argument.

However, I have a suggestion that might avoid an outburst like his in the future.

Has the staff ever considered being maybe a little more transparent in regards to discipline and bans? It occurs to me that often an issue like what Superpunk has happens when a banned member communicates with someone here and essentially badmouths the forums, then the members don't get the side of the story from the staff as a counterpoint. If the wrong story is the only story out there, it tends to become the believed story. As Hostile said, "Anyone who does not like the way this site is run and is listening to people who have been banned is listening to one half of the story."

Now, I believe it is their fault that they're believing that half of the story, but some people need all the facts to make a decision. I've seen from time to time members make comments like, "So and so was banned?! Why? What happened? What'd they do?" They're questions are often met with silence or vague answers. If a longtime poster is banned (and trust me, I agree with every banning that has happened here since I've joined), then it's almost as if they're treated as if they've never existed.

My suggestion is to maybe create a thread or area that says "User A was banned for the following reasons..." and then close the thread so no one can respond. It's an explanation, but not meant to start an argument or defense or trial of sorts. It's just there to let everyone know what happened and stands as sort of an example. And maybe it can be for the members that were banned after, say, 1000 posts. Those that did have an impact to the community that would actually be missed by some people. And it's posted with the understanding that if anyone takes it further than that, infractions will follow. It will, however, create the solution of people asking about the banned member or only believing communication from that banned member without the other side of the story.

Now, I understand the negatives to this suggestion. It creates an area of the forums that is without a doubt negative, whereas the goal is to create an overall positive atmosphere. However, I don't think it will really impact the Zone simply to the community's huge size and traffic level. It wouldn't work on a smaller forum, but here, I think it will. People are going to come and post here no matter what. The only people that will look at the "Banned Records" will be the ones that want to know.

I'll completely understand if this idea is completely shot down. I'm not sure I'd do it myself. I've run and currently run a large sci-fi forum community myself, and I get the negatives to this idea. I can also see the positives for some people. It's worth a thought, at least.

[Reality]

Originally Posted by CowboyMike

Let me go on record that I do not agree with Superpunk at all in regards to what merits a ban. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum compared to him on that argument.

However, I have a suggestion that might avoid an outburst like his in the future.

Has the staff ever considered being maybe a little more transparent in regards to discipline and bans? It occurs to me that often an issue like what Superpunk has happens when a banned member communicates with someone here and essentially badmouths the forums, then the members don't get the side of the story from the staff as a counterpoint. If the wrong story is the only story out there, it tends to become the believed story. As Hostile said, "Anyone who does not like the way this site is run and is listening to people who have been banned is listening to one half of the story."

[View Full Quote]Now, I believe it is their fault that they're believing that half of the story, but some people need all the facts to make a decision. I've seen from time to time members make comments like, "So and so was banned?! Why? What happened? What'd they do?" They're questions are often met with silence or vague answers. If a longtime poster is banned (and trust me, I agree with every banning that has happened here since I've joined), then it's almost as if they're treated as if they've never existed.

My suggestion is to maybe create a thread or area that says "User A was banned for the following reasons..." and then close the thread so no one can respond. It's an explanation, but not meant to start an argument or defense or trial of sorts. It's just there to let everyone know what happened and stands as sort of an example. And maybe it can be for the members that were banned after, say, 1000 posts. Those that did have an impact to the community that would actually be missed by some people. And it's posted with the understanding that if anyone takes it further than that, infractions will follow. It will, however, create the solution of people asking about the banned member or only believing communication from that banned member without the other side of the story.

Now, I understand the negatives to this suggestion. It creates an area of the forums that is without a doubt negative, whereas the goal is to create an overall positive atmosphere. However, I don't think it will really impact the Zone simply to the community's huge size and traffic level. It wouldn't work on a smaller forum, but here, I think it will. People are going to come and post here no matter what. The only people that will look at the "Banned Records" will be the ones that want to know.

I'll completely understand if this idea is completely shot down. I'm not sure I'd do it myself. I've run and currently run a large sci-fi forum community myself, and I get the negatives to this idea. I can also see the positives for some people. It's worth a thought, at least.

This is not something we will ever consider doing because it would create a huge number of problems. From the laughing at and taunting of banned users from their enemies to the mass whines and complaints by their support groups. It comes down to whether you trust the staff or not and if you cannot trust the diverse staff we have on CowboysZone, you will never trust the staff on any site.

#reality

[CowboyMike]

Originally Posted by Reality

This is not something we will ever consider doing because it would create a huge number of problems. From the laughing at and taunting of banned users from their enemies to the mass whines and complaints by their support groups. It comes down to whether you trust the staff or not and if you cannot trust the diverse staff we have on CowboysZone, you will never trust the staff on any site.

#reality

Understandable. Again, just an idea. That was why I suggested that it simply be stated and closed so no one could respond, but it could incite whining over PM, as well, which can't be stopped.

[BigDinAZ]

An iphone app to view and post. I have this with some of my car forums.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Originally Posted by BigDinAZ

An iphone app to view and post. I have this with some of my car forums.

I must be missing something here.

I can view and post here from my Iphone by using the safari web browser on my iphone.

That is an app that comes standard on the iphone.

I know some places make mobile versions for phones so it might make it a tad easier to load sites (takes a few things away for faster loading) but you can view and post on this site from a standard Iphone using the safari browser that comes standard on the phones.

One suggestion to make things load a little faster is to change your personal settings on the zone to remove images...including sig and avatars.

[superpunk]

Originally Posted by Reality

We would like to hear your comments on CowboysZone and any suggestions you have on how we can improve the site for you. While we cannot make any promises, we can assure you that we will read every comment and suggestion you make!

#reality

I mentioned it to WG but thanks to both of you for taking the time to read and respond to me, even if we disagree in the end.

[DallasCowpoke]

Originally Posted by Reality

We would like to hear your comments on CowboysZone and any suggestions you have on how we can improve the site for you. While we cannot make any promises, we can assure you that we will read every comment and suggestion you make!

Originally Posted by WoodysGirl

But something to note is that this is a feedback thread to discuss how to IMPROVE the site, not a thread providing a moratorium on how the site currently operates. In addition to that, I want to reiterate that if your feedback goes against the very foundation of how this site was launched and has operated for many years, then you're probably going to be disappointed.

At this time, we're not looking to change the core of how the site operates, but if one can offer feedback that encourages methods that improves on what we currently do, then we continue to welcome your feedback.

Wow, talk about opening a door, then slamming it shut because you don't like the pimples being pointed out!

superpunk makes some valid points. Echoes ones I've bumped heads on with a lot of you repeatedly. And to say banning members is a "joint decision" is purely, a bold-face lie. I've been banned more than once, within a 5 min window of posting something that was "interpreted" as offensive. Sorry, but stating it's a decision that's put to some kind of "vote", is laughable.

The "forum policies" y'all reference as "gospel", are so open-ended, and subject to such vague, self-serving interpretation, it's hard to believe y'all use them as arguments when trying to justify your actions, with a straight face.

The rules state, no religious/political posts or references of any kind, PERIOD. Yet you allow members to use links in their sigs that OPENLY promote these. Acting like y'all DON'T show favoritism is insulting.

This policy right here

#1 - You will not publicly question the actions of the staff or how this site is managed.

is probably the most telling of how this site sees itself. Good GAWD, do y'all REALLY hold yourselves in such self-aggrandizing regard!?

I honestly do enjoy reading/posting on this site, but for gosh sakes, STOP TAKING YOURSELVES SO SERIOUSLY! It's a forum board after all. I'm more than mildly confident, if it went away tonight @ 11:59, it would be nothing more than an occasional mention in the multitude of others that exist within a shockingly short period or time.

[Reality]

Originally Posted by DallasCowpoke

Wow, talk about opening a door, then slamming it shut because you don't like the pimples being pointed out!

This thread still remains open and you are here posting your views on things so I would say the door is a long way from being slammed as you put it. WoodysGirl simply pointed out that this is a feedback thread where we will listen and consider the comments of users on a variety of areas as long as they are constructive and well thought out, but we make no promises as to any specific changes.

superpunk makes some valid points. Echoes ones I've bumped heads on with a lot of you repeatedly. And to say banning members is a "joint decision" is purely, a bold-face lie. I've been banned more than once, within a 5 min window of posting something that was "interpreted" as offensive. Sorry, but stating it's a decision that's put to some kind of "vote", is laughable.

Any moderator can ban a user just like any person can walk up to someone on the street and hit them. We never claimed that a user cannot be temporarily suspended or banned without a staff vote because that is simply impossible as the entire staff is never on the site at the same time. What we said, and what is absolutely true, is that all actions of moderators including bans are viewable and reviewable by the entire staff. If the staff disagrees with the action of a moderator, it will be reversed.

There have been several cases where an action taken by a moderator was overruled by the staff. That has even happened to me with actions I have taken against users. I understand most sites do not operate this way so it is a foreign concept to most people, but this is how we have done things here for years.

The "forum policies" y'all reference as "gospel", are so open-ended, and subject to such vague, self-serving interpretation, it's hard to believe y'all use them as arguments when trying to justify your actions, with a straight face.

We try our best to be fair and we have enough diversity on our staff that we usually do a good job of being fair. Of course the users who receive infractions or account suspensions are going to consider them unfair, but that is human nature. If I was on the receiving end, I would likely think the same thing.

The rules state, no religious/political posts or references of any kind, PERIOD. Yet you allow members to use links in their sigs that OPENLY promote these. Acting like y'all DON'T show favoritism is insulting.

We are in the process of resolving issues like this, I assure you. The updated Forum Rules have been simplified to make this process more straight-forward with the staff and our members. We are discussing the things as a staff though and it will take a little time, but we are working on it.

This policy right here .. is probably the most telling of how this site sees itself. Good GAWD, do y'all REALLY hold yourselves in such self-aggrandizing regard!?

If believing in what we do and how we run CowboysZone means we hold ourselves in such self-aggrandizing regard, then I guess we are guilty. I am very proud of the site, the staff and our members.

I honestly do enjoy reading/posting on this site, but for gosh sakes, STOP TAKING YOURSELVES SO SERIOUSLY! It's a forum board after all. I'm more than mildly confident, if it went away tonight @ 11:59, it would be nothing more than an occasional mention in the multitude of others that exist within a shockingly short period or time.

As a staff, we rarely take things seriously. We have been a family-friendly site since the beginning and it has served us well. There are plenty of other forum sites that provide moderator-free or low-moderation environments out there, but few that offer a family-friendly environment like CowboysZone does.

All I can say is that I am proud of what we have here and I understand and respect that not everyone will feel that way. I never put CowboysZone online to be popular. I put it online because I wanted Cowboys fans to have a place where they could get together and talk about our favorite team in a family-friendly environment.

#reality

[Reality]

Originally Posted by superpunk

I mentioned it to WG but thanks to both of you for taking the time to read and respond to me, even if we disagree in the end.

I appreciate you saying this. Even when we disagree with comments and suggestions, we keep them in mind as we move forward. I knew when we made this thread that there would be some strong opinions in it, but I felt it was worth it because these discussions might lead to changes or new ideas. At the very least, it might clear up a few misconceptions and misunderstandings.

#reality

[BigDinAZ]

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

I must be missing something here.

I can view and post here from my Iphone by using the safari web browser on my iphone.

That is an app that comes standard on the iphone.

I know some places make mobile versions for phones so it might make it a tad easier to load sites (takes a few things away for faster loading) but you can view and post on this site from a standard Iphone using the safari browser that comes standard on the phones.

One suggestion to make things load a little faster is to change your personal settings on the zone to remove images...including sig and avatars.

Yes, I am referring to a mobile app. Sometimes loading it in Safari can be a pain in the ***. Especially trying to resize the image and what not.

[DallasCowpoke]

Originally Posted by Reality

I appreciate you saying this. Even when we disagree with comments and suggestions, we keep them in mind as we move forward. I knew when we made this thread that there would be some strong opinions in it, but I felt it was worth it because these discussions might lead to changes or new ideas. At the very least, it might clear up a few misconceptions and misunderstandings.

#reality

I'll second what sp said. Thks for listening and responding. I realize my posts/comments can be rather confrontational at times, but I genuinely appreciate the effort put in to run this site.

[CowboyMike]

This thread and the member who started it gave me this idea.

I know fans of other teams are welcomed here as long they are civil, and I think it adds a good dimension to the community.

What bothers me are fans of other teams that come here posing as Cowboys fans in an effort to troll or annoy or incite dumb debates. Even after it has been pointed out that they are likely not Cowboys fans, and they admit it, they may still act like a Cowboys fan in other threads just to rile up others. Members that participate in the thread where the person's true fandom is revealed would know, but others that didn't read that thread would assume that the individual is a Cowboys fan that leans on the annoying side.

In Eiland's case, if you look at his posting history, he originally posed as a Cowboys fan when he first started and even attempted to claim he was a Cowboys fan in that particular thread criticizing Jerry until he finally gave up and let his Giants fandom show.

My proposal is to create a system where fans of other teams are identified through the forum system. This could be done by color coding the username or by creating a custom ranking system with that team's emblem. Instead of "Junior Member" or "Senior Member", it would read "Redskins Fan" or "Iggles Fan". This would allow members to identify these individuals by their true colors... plus it might add a little flare to the site, in the likes of Tex Schramm not wanting the fans to see blue and white every week.

This could be implemented in two ways. Maybe the registration system could have an option to choose your favorite team, therefore assigning the rank or color from the beginning. This would be for the more honest members. The other option would be to have a mod assign the designation once it becomes obvious the poster is not a Cowboys fan, either through action or admission.

Thank you!

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by CowboyMike

This thread and the member who started it gave me this idea.

I know fans of other teams are welcomed here as long they are civil, and I think it adds a good dimension to the community.

What bothers me are fans of other teams that come here posing as Cowboys fans in an effort to troll or annoy or incite dumb debates. Even after it has been pointed out that they are likely not Cowboys fans, and they admit it, they may still act like a Cowboys fan in other threads just to rile up others. Members that participate in the thread where the person's true fandom is revealed would know, but others that didn't read that thread would assume that the individual is a Cowboys fan that leans on the annoying side.

[View Full Quote]In Eiland's case, if you look at his posting history, he originally posed as a Cowboys fan when he first started and even attempted to claim he was a Cowboys fan in that particular thread criticizing Jerry until he finally gave up and let his Giants fandom show.

My proposal is to create a system where fans of other teams are identified through the forum system. This could be done by color coding the username or by creating a custom ranking system with that team's emblem. Instead of "Junior Member" or "Senior Member", it would read "Redskins Fan" or "Iggles Fan". This would allow members to identify these individuals by their true colors... plus it might add a little flare to the site, in the likes of Tex Schramm not wanting the fans to see blue and white every week.

This could be implemented in two ways. Maybe the registration system could have an option to choose your favorite team, therefore assigning the rank or color from the beginning. This would be for the more honest members. The other option would be to have a mod assign the designation once it becomes obvious the poster is not a Cowboys fan, either through action or admission.

Thank you!

Things like this are why this thread was such a great idea. I'm no longer on the staff, but I can tell you I like the suggestions.

[cowboy_ron]

Having only been on here for a year, I would have to say that the staff here is friendly and contribute a great deal to the success of the site. I would have to say that the selection process in selecting new mods when the situation calls for more is pretty good. I visit alot of teams MB's and I would have to say that the mods here are the best out there bar none.

If I had to make one choice in the negative it would be this:

One thing that is so attractive about this site is the scouts and other people that currently work in the biz that take the time and effort to come here and share their views and observations with us, many times minutes before the info is even released to the media is priceless.

Now, having said that, I have personally witnessed on a few occasions when they have came in here to offer their information that some posters have literally bashed and try to belittle them in some ways, which I think is uncalled for...there is a reason they are in the business and we are not. I have seen one poster even said he was going to have to put one on ignore because he disagreed with them. These guys take the time out of an already busy day to come in here and share information with us that we would otherwise not be getting and to attack them like that is uncalled for IMO.....and it's usually the same handful that attack others in other threads.

My point is, if the posters are being allowed to attack these guys and they get tired of it they will simply go somewhere else and we will just be "another" message board and nothing special. We need to be proud that they have selected CZ as the board to come to and share that info with....I just hate the thought of that happening just because of a few boneheads that want to challenge everything they offer us to try to sound like they know more.

Just my .02

[tupperware]

Originally Posted by cowboy_ron

Having only been on here for a year, I would have to say that the staff here is friendly and contribute a great deal to the success of the site. I would have to say that the selection process in selecting new mods when the situation calls for more is pretty good. I visit alot of teams MB's and I would have to say that the mods here are the best out there bar none.

If I had to make one choice in the negative it would be this:

One thing that is so attractive about this site is the scouts and other people that currently work in the biz that take the time and effort to come here and share their views and observations with us, many times minutes before the info is even released to the media is priceless.

[View Full Quote]Now, having said that, I have personally witnessed on a few occasions when they have came in here to offer their information that some posters have literally bashed and try to belittle them in some ways, which I think is uncalled for...there is a reason they are in the business and we are not. I have seen one poster even said he was going to have to put one on ignore because he disagreed with them. These guys take the time out of an already busy day to come in here and share information with us that we would otherwise not be getting and to attack them like that is uncalled for IMO.....and it's usually the same handful that attack others in other threads.

My point is, if the posters are being allowed to attack these guys and they get tired of it they will simply go somewhere else and we will just be "another" message board and nothing special. We need to be proud that they have selected CZ as the board to come to and share that info with....I just hate the thought of that happening just because of a few boneheads that want to challenge everything they offer us to try to sound like they know more.

Just my .02

Being protected from attack for opinions or 'info' should be extended to all members. Not just those 'in the know'.