Garrett PC and Practice Tweets- 10/31/12 - Page 3 - Dallas Cowboys Forum

rocboy22 · 10-31-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbailey423

Because there are so many facets that are the residual effects of LEADERSHIP. And there is no need for me to name all of them. Both Witten and Ware are "stat sheet stuffers". That crap Marty B pulled while he was in Dallas...would NEVER have happened in a lockeroom with Irvin, Emmit, Haley, Aikman etc...and I bring him up because he plays the same position as Witten...so they were in the meeting room together every day. What impact did Witten have on Bennett? Or was he more concerned about not losing playing time to stuff the stat sheets and pave the way for an induction into the Ring of Honor and maybe the HOF?

See....I for one cannot understand ANY threads on this board that start with is" ______ going to the HOF"?

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um, ok. not sure what this has to do with what I have said. I have not tried to argue anything with you. I just asked for a few examples of the MANY. still have only recieved one.

rickjameschinaclub · 10-31-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbailey423

Like I said in another post....we have been devoid of leadership for so long around here...that we do NOT realize how bad it is lacking. Sure the Cowboys in the 90s were good. But the dynasty died when Irvin fell to the turf in Vets stadium on 1999. Micheal Irvin...a WR...was the MOST important player on that team. For many reasons. We won a Super Bowl with Kevin Williams playing opposite him. And I am sure many would argue Kevin Williams and/or Kelvin Martin could not even crack the rotation in Dallas. But Irvin was so good in his prime it did not matter that EVERYONE knew the ball was coming to him.

I'm as big a Irvin fan as anyone, but the dynasty did not die in 1999. Free agency left the biggest dent. Jimmy leaving also hurt us. Another was when Norv left, leaving us to Zampese. Red-zone issues began to decline during that era. Novacek and his back problems was Aikman's security blanket.

By 1999, we were already heading down-hill.

As na aside, Irvin was in a class by himself, in regards to fighting off DBs, running routes, being where Aikman needed him to be on those precision timing-based routes. He's under-appreciated outside of Dallas fans in reality.

bbailey423 · 10-31-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocboy22

um, ok. not sure what this has to do with what I have said. I have not tried to argue anything with you. I just asked for a few examples of the MANY. still have only recieved one.

I am not sure WHY you don't get it....but here goes

Micheal Irvin actually made others around him better....he raised their level of play. His work ethic rubbed off on other players. Like I said, we won a Super Bowl with him and Kevin Williams as the starting WRs. Not blaming Jason Witten for the Martellus Bennett debacle...but as a leader and someone who played the same position...should he bear some responsibility for the debacle that was Marty B

Micheal Irvin was not selfish. There is a famous scene of him on the sidelines talking to the Oline...he was telling them in so many words we are going to run it down their throats all day long. As a WR, he could have decided that if we were not going to throw the ball...I am going to check out...but that is not what he did.

Micheal Irvin ALWAYS defended Troy to the media.

Micheal Irvin pulled the team together. I have seen him during games talking to guys on offense, on defense, on special teams...did not matter. I have seen him stick his head in a special teams huddle before they took the field before and important punt or kickoff....he was engaged. He wanted them to know their value to the team and that particular situation of the game. I don't think I have EVER seen Witten talk to ANYONE during a game...other than Romo.

I could go and on...but there is no need to. The reuslts we have seen over the last 15 years speak for themselves. And Witten has done NOTHING to change the cutlure in Dallas. Hence him and Irvin should NEVER be mentioned in the same sentence.

Heck to this day Irvin is the BIGGEST cowboy homer in the media...he is ALWAYS picking us to win. He shows more passion in a suit and tie...then many of the players in their uniform. He still wants it like he is playing. He bleeds silver and blue.

bbailey423 · 10-31-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickjameschinaclub

I'm as big a Irvin fan as anyone, but the dynasty did not die in 1999. Free agency left the biggest dent. Jimmy leaving also hurt us. Another was when Norv left, leaving us to Zampese. Red-zone issues began to decline during that era. Novacek and his back problems was Aikman's security blanket.

By 1999, we were already heading down-hill.

As na aside, Irvin was in a class by himself, in regards to fighting off DBs, running routes, being where Aikman needed him to be on those precision timing-based routes. He's under-appreciated outside of Dallas fans in reality.

I agree we were dying...but his injury was the final nail in the coffin. We were 3-0. And we were winning that game when he got hurt. I thought that year was shaping up nicely for us. Without Irvin...we had ZERO shot.

WV Cowboy · 10-31-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbailey423

Hence him and Irvin should NEVER be mentioned in the same sentence.

It's a shame that you have missed out on one of the greatest Cowboys of all time, .. on and off the field.

He could have played on any Dallas team, in any era and been great.

Not his fault that the coaches and players around him could not pull their weight.

rocboy22 · 10-31-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbailey423

I am not sure WHY you don't get it....but here goes

Micheal Irvin actually made others around him better....he raised their level of play. His work ethic rubbed off on other players. Like I said, we won a Super Bowl with him and Kevin Williams as the starting WRs. Not blaming Jason Witten for the Martellus Bennett debacle...but as a leader and someone who played the same position...should he bear some responsibility for the debacle that was Marty B

Micheal Irvin was not selfish. There is a famous scene of him on the sidelines talking to the Oline...he was telling them in so many words we are going to run it down their throats all day long. As a WR, he could have decided that if we were not going to throw the ball...I am going to check out...but that is not what he did.

Micheal Irvin ALWAYS defended Troy to the media.

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What have you said all of this to me for? I LOVE Irvin. He is my favorite player of all time. I have not tried to argue against his merits or his level of leadership, AT ALL.

I asked one simple question in response to one of your posts: to list just of few of the MANY categories Irvin was on another level in. For some reason, you have refused to do so over multiple posts, only naming leadership.

bbailey423 · 10-31-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocboy22

What have you said all of this to me for? I LOVE Irvin. He is my favorite player of all time. I have not tried to argue against his merits or his level of leadership, AT ALL.

I asked one simple question in response to one of your posts: to list just of few of the MANY categories Irvin was on another level in. For some reason, you have refused to do so over multiple posts, only naming leadership.

I tell you what...since you THINK you are smart...you name me some categories where you think Jason Witten is equal to Micheal Irvin. The internet will be around for a while...so I will wait.

Joshmil53 · 10-31-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbeBeta

Free mostly did a good job on Sunday against Osi

Except getting beat terribly on the final play.

bbailey423 · 10-31-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by WV Cowboy

It's a shame that you have missed out on one of the greatest Cowboys of all time, .. on and off the field.

He could have played on any Dallas team, in any era and been great.

Not his fault that the coaches and players around him could not pull their weight.

Never said Witten was not a good player...just that he and Irvin do not belong in the same sentence. Heck if you removed Witten from this team and put Irvin on it....the difference in the results of this era of Cowboys football would be like night and day.

For the last time...Witten is a good player. But the person I originally responded to seemed offended that Witten be associated with what he deemed a drug addict, adulterer etc.....what is it that they say about glass houes? So both you and that poster can bask in the glow of all the numbers these cats in this era of Cowboys football put up...Jerry has thrived because of you.

rocboy22 · 10-31-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbailey423

I tell you what...since you THINK you are smart...you name me some categories where you think Jason Witten is equal to Micheal Irvin. The internet will be around for a while...so I will wait.

Why would I do that? Did I EVER claim Witten to be equal to Irvin in ANY category??? Nope. Did I EVER say I DIDN'T think Irvin was far superior to Witten in many categories? Nope. All I did was ask for a few of the many categories you believed Irvin to be superior in. You are the one who took it as some sort of rebuttal and started posting diatribes on Irvin's great leadership.

If you really want me to, though, I will name one:

Durability/Toughness

Joshmil53 · 10-31-2012

I love how almost every damn thread in this forum gets derailed.

rocboy22 · 10-31-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshmil53

I love how almost every damn thread in this forum gets derailed.

That's what happens with a bunch of beetle bailey's who can't read and get all butt-hurt because of it.

bbailey423 · 10-31-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocboy22

Why would I do that? Did I EVER claim Witten to be equal to Irvin in ANY category??? Nope. Did I EVER say I DIDN'T think Irvin was far superior to Witten in many categories? Nope. All I did was ask for a few of the many categories you believed Irvin to be superior in. You are the one who took it as some sort of rebuttal and started posting diatribes on Irvin's great leadership.

If you really want me to, though, I will name one:

Durability/Toughness

And right of the top I would disagree with you. Because taking the field when you are not healthy and HURTING your team is NOT admirable to me. And that speaks to selfishness and leaderhsip issues. But that runs rampant in Dallas right now...so I can't really say I blame Witten when there is no one in Dallas to stop it. Heck Dez hinted the other day that they coaching staff has talked to him about fielding punts he should let bounce...but he feels it is his job to make plays...so I guess he ignores them...and they let it continue until he fumbles..then they FINALLY take him off punt returns. So again, no one had the guts to take Witten off the field. So you can find taking the field injured as admirable...but not me.

Dallas4ever · 10-31-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodysGirl

Clarence Hill ‏@clarencehilljr
DeMarco Murray is not expected to practice today but the Cowboys are hopeful about Dan Connor practicing and playing

Jason Witten is four catches away from passing michael Irvin as the team's all-time leading receiver. Witten will have the record but he is no michael irvin

Jason Garrett said Witten is a definite candidate for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. He certainly will have the numbers to support his candidacy. Atlanta's Tony Gonzalez is still the current standard bearer, maybe all-time, and will go in first whenever he quits. then it will be witten against Gates

Jason Garrett said he is not surprised Tony Gonzalez is still playing at a high level, says he may be the best tight end all time

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This guy is highly insightful.

rocboy22 · 10-31-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbailey423

And right of the top I would disagree with you. Because taking the field when you are not healthy and HURTING your team is NOT admirable to me. And that speaks to selfishness and leaderhsip issues. But that runs rampant in Dallas right now...so I can't really say I blame Witten when there is no one in Dallas to stop it. Heck Dez hinted the other day that they coaching staff has talked to him about fielding punts he should let bounce...but he feels it is his job to make plays...so I guess he ignores them...and they let it continue until he fumbles..then they FINALLY take him off punt returns. So again, no one had the guts to take Witten off the field. So you can find taking the field injured as admirable...but not me.

huh? this is how you back up your stance that Witten is not as durable/tough as Irvin was?? OK. I'm done. Not sure why I engaged this long with someone of your ilk.