FSSW: Decoding Garrett: Garrett appears almost out of ideas

[xwalker]

Bob is describing the passing game that would evolve for most teams that Cannot Run the Ball Effectively.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Kangaroo

Dallas is not the only team that does this I see it all the time in the NFL where coaches hangs on to the Vets starting over young guys. Even after they lose week after week with the same mantra they give us the best chance to win.

NFL coaches are a strange cat

Not so much with the Patriots.

[Idgit]

Originally Posted by Chocolate Lab

Of course it isn't his fault... He's just hamstrung again...

You don't think this year's offense is underperforming Garrett's usual point-production? Given the same HC/OC and the same QB, there has to be some reason for the 4.3 points/game productivity drop (relative to last year's average). This doesn't account for the effect of this year's pick-sixes, either, by the way.

Or is it just that the HC keeps getting worse?

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by rickjameschinaclub

You forgot the cancer excuses as well... I swear I've never seen such blind adoration for a complete train wreck as a coach...

Can't use the colts......Pagano's doing better with his office hooked up to a chemo drip.



Think about that, the Colts have a better offense than Dallas. Main difference from last year's 2-14 is a rookie QB. And that offense is showing improvement

[DOUBLE WING]

Originally Posted by Idgit

You don't think this year's offense is underperforming Garrett's usual point-production? Given the same HC/OC and the same QB, there has to be some reason for the 4.3 points/game productivity drop (relative to last year's average). This doesn't account for the effect of this year's pick-sixes, either, by the way.

Or is it just that the HC keeps getting worse?

Yes, he is getting worse.

There are plenty of offenses around the league scoring more points than us with much less talent. I'm sorry that Jason Garrett can't have a pro bowler starting at every position on offense, but he should be getting a hell of a lot more than he's getting out of this group. I've got to think offensive coordinators around the league would salivate at calling plays for an offense with Romo, Wittten, Austin and Bryant.

[Idgit]

Originally Posted by DOUBLE WING

Yes, he is getting worse.

There are plenty of offenses around the league scoring more points than us with much less talent. I'm sorry that Jason Garrett can't have a pro bowler starting at every position on offense, but he should be getting a hell of a lot more than he's getting out of this group. I've got to think offensive coordinators around the league would salivate at calling plays for an offense with Romo, Wittten, Austin and Bryant.

Why's he getting worse, then? I mean, beyond the generic things like you don't like his play calling, and he's not leading enough.

He doesn't need a pro-bowler at every position. What we need, though, is players doing what they're supposed to. If the design of the offense is to take advantage of whatever mismatch the defense gives you, and we can't do it because players drop the ball, miss protection pickups, or make the wrong route adjustments, then obviously the offense isn't going to work. It's perfectly possible to field an offense that doesn't have many superstars, but has everybody doing what they're supposed to do, and be productive doing that. NE has done it for years. PIT does a nice job of it. Do you think GB just gets lucky drafting productive WRs all the time, up and down their roster? No, they get guys who work the system and are where they're supposed to be. Their starters are great players, but they're deep all the way down the line with guys who know their roles.

And, as I always say when making this point: it's completely on Garrett to get those guys and to coach the ones he's got properly. This year, we're not doing that. We've got one of the best WR coaches in the league, and a very, very good QB, so that's not the problem. This is not an excuse for Garrett; it's a description of the problem that it's his responsibility to fix or he gets fired.

For whatever reason, people are more comfortable deciding the guy can't call plays or that he just can't coach. I prefer to talk about *why* we're beating ourselves and what we might do to fix it this season.

[DOUBLE WING]

Originally Posted by Idgit

Why's he getting worse, then? I mean, beyond the generic things like you don't like his play calling, and he's not leading enough.

[View Full Quote]He doesn't need a pro-bowler at every position. What we need, though, is players doing what they're supposed to. If the design of the offense is to take advantage of whatever mismatch the defense gives you, and we can't do it because players drop the ball, miss protection pickups, or make the wrong route adjustments, then obviously the offense isn't going to work. It's perfectly possible to field an offense that doesn't have many superstars, but has everybody doing what they're supposed to do, and be productive doing that. NE has done it for years. PIT does a nice job of it. Do you think GB just gets lucky drafting productive WRs all the time, up and down their roster? No, they get guys who work the system and are where they're supposed to be. Their starters are great players, but they're deep all the way down the line with guys who know their roles.

And, as I always say when making this point: it's completely on Garrett to get those guys and to coach the ones he's got properly. This year, we're not doing that. We've got one of the best WR coaches in the league, and a very, very good QB, so that's not the problem. This is not an excuse for Garrett; it's a description of the problem that it's his responsibility to fix or he gets fired.

For whatever reason, people are more comfortable deciding the guy can't call plays or that he just can't coach. I prefer to talk about *why* we're beating ourselves and what we might do to fix it this season.

I think it's entirely possible that he was just never that good. So it isn't that he's necessarily "getting worse", but rather that his best seasons here were because of the pure ridiculous talent we had on offense. The good offensive lines we had in his early years here. The fact that we had a still in his prime Terrell Owens, a prime Jason Witten, a prime Tony Romo. It's probably not a coincidence that the further away from those years we get, the worse Garrett's offense gets.

As far as guys being where they should be, you said it before I could -- that's on Garrett. I will concede that I think we just, in general, have some guys on this who aren't very smart football players and are prone to making dumb mistakes. If that's the case though, they shouldn't be out there. Garrett is responsible for getting these guys ready to play every Sunday and putting them in a position to succeed. If they aren't, they shouldn't be out there.

[Idgit]

Originally Posted by DOUBLE WING

I think it's entirely possible that he was just never that good. So it isn't that he's necessarily "getting worse", but rather that his best seasons here were because of the pure ridiculous talent we had on offense. The good offensive lines we had in his early years here. The fact that we had a still in his prime Terrell Owens, a prime Jason Witten, a prime Tony Romo. It's probably not a coincidence that the further away from those years we get, the worse Garrett's offense gets.

As far as guys being where they should be, you said it before I could -- that's on Garrett. I will concede that I think we just, in general, have some guys on this who aren't very smart football players and are prone to making dumb mistakes. If that's the case though, they shouldn't be out there. Garrett is responsible for getting these guys ready to play every Sunday and putting them in a position to succeed. If they aren't, they shouldn't be out there.

It's not hard to make the case that Tony's best year was last season. And Witten's playing as well or better than he ever has right now. I guess you can make the argument that our offensive line is worse than it was back in 2007-2008...I'm not so sure it is, because I never liked the big, slow, OGs who couldn't handle simple stunts.

However you look at it, our point production, and the number of points we've given up to defenses on returns, is way up this season. And Garrett's been a constant. It might well be that his offense is flawed, but that alone doesn't explain why were not scoring more.

My own opinion is that it's a combination of us not having as many skill players who can take advantage of what the defense gives us, and who we've played so far this year. I do expect to see the points/game number go back up this season, but I don't know that we'll ever be as effective as we were even last year, and we had plenty of room to improve over that baseline to begin with.

[Hoofbite]

Originally Posted by Idgit

You don't think this year's offense is underperforming Garrett's usual point-production? Given the same HC/OC and the same QB, there has to be some reason for the 4.3 points/game productivity drop (relative to last year's average). This doesn't account for the effect of this year's pick-sixes, either, by the way.

Or is it just that the HC keeps getting worse?

Garrett's usual isn't that good to begin with so the fact that this year is exceptionally worse than normal will buy no leniency from me.

[Idgit]

Originally Posted by Hoofbite

Garrett's usual isn't that good to begin with so the fact that this year is exceptionally worse than normal will buy no leniency from me.

And, as I always say when making this point: it's completely on Garrett to get those guys and to coach the ones he's got properly. This year, we're not doing that. We've got one of the best WR coaches in the league, and a very, very good QB, so that's not the problem. This is not an excuse for Garrett; it's a description of the problem that it's his responsibility to fix or he gets fired.

The point isn't to grant leniency. It's to understand why we're less productive right now. Because, with our defense playing better than it did last season, if we could increase the productivity of the offense, we'd be a much better team. Yet, for some reason, that production has dropped off fairly dramatically with many of the same coaches and players in place.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Idgit

You don't think this year's offense is underperforming Garrett's usual point-production? Given the same HC/OC and the same QB, there has to be some reason for the 4.3 points/game productivity drop (relative to last year's average). This doesn't account for the effect of this year's pick-sixes, either, by the way.

Or is it just that the HC keeps getting worse?

6 years to influence the org on personnel, develop players, scheme, etc.

Offense should be judged on points. Here are point rankings from what are typically considered good offenses since 2007

Year....Dal...GB....NE...NYG...SD...Indy...Philly. .Atl
2007.....2.....4.....1.....14......5......3....17. ....29
2008....18.....5.....8......3......2.....13....6.. ....10
2009....14.....3.....6......8......4......7.....5. .....13
2010.....7.....10....1......7......2......4.....3. .....5
2011....15.....1.....3......9......5.....28.....8. .....7
2012....26.....3.....1......2.....17.....25...30.. ....9


The start in 2007 was great, but looked as if either/both the element of surprise is gone, or scoring is better w/o Romo (2010).

You have to score to win....Dallas does not score and I dont buy its all talent. GB won the SB with almost all OL injured. Even if it is "talent" Garrett has had years to get the personnel he wants or develop them. Either is a fail.

[Zman5]

Originally Posted by rickjameschinaclub

You forgot the cancer excuses as well... I swear I've never seen such blind adoration for a complete train wreck as a coach...

Don't forget the "No full off season" excuse either.

[rickjameschinaclub]

This year we've already gotten the Phil Costa not in excuse, Romo over-sailing passes all day excuse, Murray is out excuse, and even Wade's effects are still present excuse...

[CyberB0b]

Penalties, bad snaps, red zone and short yardage scoring and points in general have been a problem outside of the 2007 season under Garrett. That was obviously a fluke season.

[Bill Wooten]

I seem to remember in the NFL Films show on Landry that he was criticized for forcing his system on players that didn't fit it. Sounds similar to what people are saying about Garrett.

I'm not saying Garrett will be another Landry. I think this team has a lot of players that are either not smart or don't take things as serious and Garrett wants them to. He needs to adapt his system to fit what he has on the field until he can get players that get it.

My fear is his trigger-man will be gone before he gets players on the field that know how to run his system.