Jimmy Johnson knew if a player could play!

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by Proximo

I agree with this. I think right now Garrett's ability to assemble quality players and coaches is his best quality. The other areas can be, and hopefully will be improved upon. This thing isn't going to happen overnight but in a year or two if we keep trending upwards as far as drafting and picking up free agents we could be in a much better spot than we have been in a while.

If he lets go of the offense in time to save his job this asset of his may well flourish.

If he won't let go of some control so he can focus more on traditional coaching duties we may never see the fruit of that tree.

Where Garrett needs to most follow Jimmy's lead is in getting in an offensive coordinator whose life the next 4 or 5 years revolves around making tony romo a hall of famer.

[AbeBeta]

man, people here forget his time in Miami. He pretty much kept that club status quo for four years. A few good picks but mostly just a bunch of high picks who did little

[Plankton]

Originally Posted by AbeBeta

man, people here forget his time in Miami. He pretty much kept that club status quo for four years. A few good picks but mostly just a bunch of high picks who did little

He built a defense that carried the team for a decade. Yes, the offense was not good, but the defense was really well built. Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Daryl Gardener, Sam Madison, Patrick Surtain were all very good picks.

[Proximo]

Originally Posted by jterrell

If he lets go of the offense in time to save his job this asset of his may well flourish.

If he won't let go of some control so he can focus more on traditional coaching duties we may never see the fruit of that tree.

Where Garrett needs to most follow Jimmy's lead is in getting in an offensive coordinator whose life the next 4 or 5 years revolves around making tony romo a hall of famer.

In my opinion his job is safe anyway at least for one more year, if not more. If he can continue to churn the roster and get rid of dead weight where needed and bring in the types of guys he's been bringing in, we could be very good very soon. I think it all hinges on him improving as a coach while the roster improves so that we can make a real run in the near future. I'd be ecstatic if we made a playoff appearance this year, knowing that Garretts coaching, and our roster, will be much improved with time.

Patience is a virtue.

[Proximo]

Originally Posted by Frozen700

Jimmy Johnson also walked on water.

There should just be a sticky thread titled "slobber on Jimmy", because that's all that's been going on around here the last few days.

[KJJ]

Originally Posted by Proximo

There should just be a sticky thread titled "slobber on Jimmy", because that's all that's been going on around here the last few days.

Right below it there should be another sticky thread titled "puke on Jerry" that's another one that's been going on around here lately.

[Mash]

Originally Posted by Proximo

There should just be a sticky thread titled "slobber on Jimmy", because that's all that's been going on around here the last few days.

Originally Posted by KJJ

Right below it there should be another sticky thread titled "puke on Jerry" that's another one that's been going on around here lately.

[BraveHeartFan]

Jimmy was damn good.

But lets not pretend that he always got it right.

I've read many times how Jimmy wanted James Francis the year they got Emmitt and didn't want Smith. They had to basically beat him into making the moves that brought Emmitt here.


So yes Jimmy was damn good but he wasn't perfect and if he'd had his way there the Cowboys would have had a linebacker who flamed out of the NFL in a minute and would have missed on one of the greatest runningbacks in NFL history.


He's also the guy that I've read told Brad Sham he was seriously considering going with Walsh in Dallas, over Aikman, and was instead talked out of that and finally traded Walsh to avoid the issue. If Jimmy had done want he really wanted to at that time then you wouldn't have had those 3 Superbowls.

[Chuck 54]

Jimmy was a great coach and a wheeler-dealer in the draft.
However...

1. Aikman and Irvin were not his brilliance, and if he'd had his way, Emmitt would not have been a Cowboy either as Jimmy favored the LB James Francis whom he was unable to get...sometimes a little luck helps.

2. Jimmy missed on a ton of draft picks...that's documented. He traded Hershall for a ton of draft picks and continued that philosophy of stockpiling picks...the more you have, the more you'll hit on even when you miss on others.

With Aikman on the team, he still traded what later became the #1 pick in the draft due to his 1-15 record, for his Miami QB, Steve Walsh, a horrible bust in the NFL...now he later traded Walsh for a 1,2,3, but that was one example of a stupid trade and poor judge of talent on a guy he knew better than anyone.

Some of what Jimmy did was brilliant; some of it was LUCKY. He never got involved in the offense or the defense, and he went through a few coordinators before the offense got going.

What I think Jimmy was, moreso than talent evaluator or franchise builder, is a head coach, free of other duties, who could push everyone's buttons and get the most out of young players. Even then, it can be argued that the Cowboys were not doing much until he traded for Charles Haley and pushed the right buttons with that guy...we never won before or after Haley...I believe he was the missing piece that put that team over the top, a guy who pressured the QB almost every play and was never taken out of a game by double-teaming.

And yet, when Jimmy moved on to Miami, he was a failure...he failed at putting the finishing touches on an already talented team, and he failed to get the veterans on that team to react to his methods the way they did in Dallas.

Everything in the NFL has an element of talent and a dose of good fortune and timing.

[bsheeern]

Lots of good info and knowledge here.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle of the Jimmy and Jerry Days.

If anyone really wants to understand the complete truth, then you better keep an open mind.

BOTH Jimmy and Jerry are BOTH to Blame and Praise for all of it. They BOTH have ego issues and need those egos stroked. Jerry wanted his "football" ego stroked and Jimmy wanted his "executive" ego stroked.

Instead of putting their PERSONAL EGOS aside, they got into a "ding ding swinging" contest. Who could make themselves feel the best and get the all mighty recognition they wanted or didn't want the other to get about what they had accomplished together.

Troy Aikman said it best. He made reference to the fact that they as a team we preached to daily to put your personal issues aside and commit to doing what's Best for the Dallas Cowboys. Yet he said the Two men who were supposed to be the leaders and examples of that exact philosophy weren't willing to do that.

[Plankton]

Originally Posted by BraveHeartFan

Jimmy was damn good.

But lets not pretend that he always got it right.

I've read many times how Jimmy wanted James Francis the year they got Emmitt and didn't want Smith. They had to basically beat him into making the moves that brought Emmitt here.

I'll repeat what I said in another thread to this very point, and there is no offense intended with this:

This is the single dumbest argument used to knock Jimmy Johnson. Absolutely, completely one hundred percent dumb.

Outside of the team with the first pick in the draft, most teams very likely covet another player, and do not end up selecting them. Does that make them lucky?

The best examples are the drafting of Joe Montana and Tom Brady. Bill Walsh tried to trade up and get his former Stanford QB, Steve Dils. He didn't get him, and ended up with Montana. Does that make his selection less brilliant, because he wanted Dils? With regards to Brady, Belichick had to be talked into selecting him by the late Dick Rehbein - in the sixth round, no less. Is it a worse selection as a result?

Did Johnson blow draft picks? Absolutely. Alexander Wright was a terrible pick, as were James Richards, Rhondy Weston and Mike Middleton. The point was that he was smart enough strategically to revolutionize and use the "fishnet" approach to maximize his odds with extra draft selections. Who do you think that Belichick learned his methods from?

Johnson was also ably supported by Bob Ackles, Dick Mansperger and John Wooten, who are the most underrated and most underappreciated people with strong hands in building the Super Bowl winning teams.

[alsmith]

Jimmy did a great job coaching using fear, just as H.S. coaches use today and college coaches use today, because the players have no choice in the matter, but in the NFL that will not work with the NFL players anymore, as for players just release them and another team will be glad to pick them up and play and pay them.

Remember, for those who have forgotten, Jimmy the great, he did not want QB Troy as the QB, he wanted QB Walsh from Miami as his QB, and Jimmy the great, he did not want RB Emmitt, he said he was to small and slow, he wanted to draft a LB that was drafted just ahead of his pick, ahead of him and Jimmy had to be talked into taking Emmitt.

So as for how great he was, yes he was a very good coach but he also proved in Miami that his coaching style and his system does not and will not work in this Free Agent area, known as today's NFL, that is and was the reason he QUIT coaching, he knew it then and now because players would not take the abuse that he shovel out, as he even said he was too hard on the players and the players today, forget about it.

Why do you think Jimmy would not come back to coaching, he has enough ego of him in him, not to want to destroy his image, remember he a legend in his own mind, and yes he did win here and thank you Jimmy and Jerry for the SB wins together but your ego Jimmy got in your own way and it still shows today, is that enough credit for him..

Jimmy you did something that people should never do,,, you disrespected your boss, instead of saying we build this team, as so for you and the players that was signed, and to give the man that sign those big checks as the owner and GM and scouts that took those trips and people that worked hard to put all that info together for you and coaches,

Jimmy you totally disrespected the man who took a chance on you, Jerry was told not to because of Jimmy big ego, other teams would not touch him because of that, but Jimmy you totally disrespect him the owner in a bar in front of friends and other coaches, by the way I would have FIRED your a-s-s too.

Remember with Jimmy its all or none, and he has more than enough of him for everyone..

[Marktui]

Originally Posted by Arkyvarminter

I never meant that Jimmy was alone in his drafting players but he was a bigger part of it than many think. We haven't drafted like that since so something has changed......

No doubt Jimmy hand a serious hand in creating the Cowboys. Again the previous poster said, it lies somewhere in the middle of all folk lore.

Jimmy had the perfect scenario coming in, 1st pick in the draft, qb is there. The famous trade of Herschel which netted him tons of picks. He had plan b free agency, where he plucked veteran cast offs from other teams and probably the best equalizer of all-he had no free agency meaning losing our good players as well as no salary cap.

As far as drafting, yes we have been abysmal, but the last two drafts seem to be wielding better players. Sean Lee, Bruce Carter, Mo Claiborne, DeMarco Murray, Tyron Smith, Tyron Crawford. Hopefully that trend keeps going.

[BraveHeartFan]

Originally Posted by Plankton

I'll repeat what I said in another thread to this very point, and there is no offense intended with this:

This is the single dumbest argument used to knock Jimmy Johnson. Absolutely, completely one hundred percent dumb.

Outside of the team with the first pick in the draft, most teams very likely covet another player, and do not end up selecting them. Does that make them lucky?

The best examples are the drafting of Joe Montana and Tom Brady. Bill Walsh tried to trade up and get his former Stanford QB, Steve Dils. He didn't get him, and ended up with Montana. Does that make his selection less brilliant, because he wanted Dils? With regards to Brady, Belichick had to be talked into selecting him by the late Dick Rehbein - in the sixth round, no less. Is it a worse selection as a result?

[View Full Quote]Did Johnson blow draft picks? Absolutely. Alexander Wright was a terrible pick, as were James Richards, Rhondy Weston and Mike Middleton. The point was that he was smart enough strategically to revolutionize and use the "fishnet" approach to maximize his odds with extra draft selections. Who do you think that Belichick learned his methods from?

Johnson was also ably supported by Bob Ackles, Dick Mansperger and John Wooten, who are the most underrated and most underappreciated people with strong hands in building the Super Bowl winning teams.

Ummm...yes. That absolutely makes their pick complete luck. And if you're trying to claim that Walsh or Bill are brilliant for their picks of Montana and Brady then to each their own but those are as lucky a picks as a person could ever get.


Also you're talking about guys they lucked into later rounds in the draft. Jimmy wanted Francis earlier in the first, and could have gotten him, but was finally talked out of it by the scouts who said Emmitt was the guy. This isn't brilliant on Jimmy's part it's brilliant on his staffs part and good on Jimmy to have finally given in and listened.


But that's not brilliant and the lucky picks of Montana and even more so Brady are anything but brilliant. They're luck personified.

[KJJ]

Jimmy missed on some picks and trades but a few of his hits were knocked right out of the ball park at key positions. His very first pick Aikman ended up being a HOF QB. The very next year his first pick Emmitt who he had to trade up to get ended up being a HOF RB who's the NFL's all time leading rusher.

The deal to acquire Charles Haley from SF was one of the most brilliant moves ever it was the key piece that led to the Cowboys becoming the team of the 90's instead of the 49ers. A lot of Jimmy's detractors will point out that he was aided by the Walker trade and all the draft picks it led to but it was a gutsy move and like Jimmy said it's what you do with the picks that counts.

He mentioned the Rams made a similar trade a few years earlier with the Colts for Eric Dickerson but the trade didn't help the Rams because they didn't come up with much with the draft picks they acquired.