DC.com Video: Rob Ryan Interview

[ddh33]

The stupid debates will never end.

But back to the point, I think this front office has done an amazing job of digging guys up and putting them in position to help this team. They deserve a ton of credit for what they have been able to do.

[ConstantReboot]

Originally Posted by DCBoysfan

I believe the samething was said when Ireland went to Miami with Bill.

Well if Tom Ciskowski leaves he will be replaced by one of Jason Garrett's brother. I rather have someone who is proven than someone who gets to draft people because he is the head coaches brother.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by ddh33

The stupid debates will never end.

But back to the point, I think this front office has done an amazing job of digging guys up and putting them in position to help this team. They deserve a ton of credit for what they have been able to do.

Yes. An amazing job. I look at this roster and marvel at all the talent.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by ConstantReboot

Well if Tom Ciskowski leaves he will be replaced by one of Jason Garrett's brother. I rather have someone who is proven than someone who gets to draft people because he is the head coaches brother.

Ciskowski doesn't get to draft anyone. He compiles the information and leaves it for the decision makers on the team to decide.

But if you feel that way, what do you say about Ciskowski's boss, the VP of Personnel, only having the gig because he's the Owner's son?

And what has Ciskowski proven anyway? Has he ever been part of a winner?

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by Idgit

It was.

We're on a pretty good run here in recent drafts. I don't care who gets the credit. I imagine it's one part a coach that knows what he wants, one part a scouting staff who can identify it, and one part a warroom willing and able to go up, or down, to get it. As long as the roster keeps getting better with young players, we're heading in the right direction.

Our last three drafts that equates to a "pretty good run", with a reasonable outlook on each pick....

2010
1(24) Dez Bryant WR Oklahoma St. - This looks more and more like a bad decision by the day.
2(55) Sean Lee ILB Penn St. - Injury concerns but still a hit.
4(126) Akwasi Owusu-Ansah CB Indiana (Pa.) - Wasted pick.
6(179) Sam Young T Notre Dame - Garbage.
6(196) Jamar Wall CB Texas Tech - Couldn't play.
7(234) Sean Lissemore - Looks like a decent role player. Hit.

So what we have here is one really good player but he's injury prone. He may or may not have a great career because of it. Dez is an infant mentally. We all know he's not reaching his potential. Lissemore is a rotational sub.

2011
1(9) Tyron Smith T USC - Grand Slam.
2(40) Bruce Carter OLB North Carolina - Beast.
3(71) DeMarco Murray RB Oklahoma - Solid pick but injury prone.
4(110) David Arkin T Missouri St. - Can't play.
5(143) Josh Thomas CB Buffalo - Swing and a miss.
6(176) Dwayne Harris WR East Carolina - Could be an emerging return man.
7(220) Shaun Chapas FB Georgia - Not an NFL player.
7(252) Bill Nagy C Wisconsin - Shown nothing and injury prone.

Two outstanding players at the top and another that could be if he could ever stay on the field. The last 5 picks were a waste unless Harris sticks as an impact return man and/or receiver.

2012
1(6) Morris Claiborne CB LSU - Actually cost 1(14) and 2(45). Nice player, waaaaaay overpaid for him. No impact whatsoever.
3(81) Tyrone Crawford DE Boise St. - Has shown nothing yet to warrant the pick but it's still early.
4(113) Kyle Wilber OLB Purdue - Is he on the team? Oh.
4(135) Matt Johnson S Eastern Washington - Evil Knievel had less injuries. Which could be saving us from seeing he can't play. Like his draft grade outside of Dallas suggests.
5(152) Danny Coale WR Virginia Tech - Practice squad.
6(186) James Hanna TE Oklahoma - Hasn't done anything but hasn't had a chance yet either. A complete unknown.
7(222) Caleb McSurdy ILB Montana St. - Everybody's favorite lunch pail pick. Then camp started. Selling insurance in the fall of 2013.

We stand a very good chance of coming out of the 2012 draft with, wait for it, a cornerback. ~confetti~.....~party noise makers~

Now I would agree this three year clip is better than Jerry's norm, but Jerry's norm is horrific. There's a huge gap from that to quality and I think it's a real stretch to claim we're on a "pretty good run" here with our drafting. In fact, if you look at the 4th round on, when teams build their quality depth, we're still pretty bad.

[Bluestang]

http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../nyg/draft.htm

Lets see you break down their draft picks...you can start with 2008 if you wish.

[Bluestang]

2008:
1(31) = Kenny Phillips (S) - starter, missed 2009 season due to knee injury, missed one game 2011 season, and now injured since 9/30 this season
2(63) = Terrell Thomas (DB) - three good seasons but has been injured since
3(95) = Mario Manningham (WR)- 18 career TDs but team let him walk in FA due to cap management
4(123) = Bryan Kehl (LB) - waived in 2010.
5(165) = Jonathan Goff (LB) - became a starter in 2010, now signed with Redskins but on IR for a torn ACL
6(198) = Andre Woodson (QB) - waived by Hartford Colonials in 2010 in the UFL, coaches the Kentucky Wildcats now
6(199) = Robert Henderson (DE) - waived in 2009, now plays for NO VooDoos

2009:
1(29) = Hackeem Nicks (WR) - missed games in first two years, but is a starter w/ 25 career TDs
2(45) = Clint Sintim (LB) - waived in August of this year, amassed 33 career tackles and 1 sack
2(60) = William Beatty (OT) - got the starting LT job in 2011 and still the starter
3(85) = Ramses Barden (WR) - career 25 receptions, 335 yds
3(100) = Travis Beckum (TE) - career 24 receptions, 251 yds, 3 TDs
4(129) = Andre Brown (RB) - waived in 2010, and then brought back in 2011, is currently RB2
5(151) = Rhett Bomar (QB) - waived in 2010, now plays with the Raiders
6(200) = DeAndre Wright (DB) - waived in 2009, now plays New Mexico Stars
7(238) = Stoney Woodson (DB) - waived in 2009, now plays with Jacksonville Sharks

2010:
1(15) = Jason Pierre-Paul (DE) - it took a year but he enough said about him.
2(46) = Linval Joseph (DT) - career 79 tackles, 6 sacks. 4 of those sacks this season
3(76) = Chad Jones (S) - waived this season
4(115) = Phillip Dillard (LB) - waived in 2011, now plays for Omaha Nighthawks
5(147) = Mitch Petrus (OG) - waived this season
6(184) = Adrian Tracy (LB) - spent 2010 on IR, signed to PS in 2011, now on active roster as backup
7(221) - Matt Dodge (P) - waived in 2011 after disastrous 2010 season

2011:
1(19) = Prince Amukamara (DB) - current starter
2(52) = Marvin Austin (DT) - spent 2011 on IR, but hasn't started a game in 2012 and has 4 career tackles
3(83) = Jerrell Jernigan (WR) - career 6 recieving yds
4(117) = James Brewer (OT) - spent all 16 games inactive in 2011, has only played in two games this year with no starts
6(185) = Greg Jones (LB) - waived this season
6(198) = Tyler Sash (S) - special teamer
6(202) = Jacquian Williams (LB) - rotational player
7(221) = Da'Rel Scott (RB) - RB3 in 2011, now on IR this season

2012:
1(32) = David Wilson (RB)- KR special teamer, pressed into action with injuries to Bradshaw and Brown
2(63) = Rueben Randle (WR) - career 9 receptions, 154 yds
3(94) = Jayron Hosley (DB)- Nickel corner
4(127) = Adrien Robinson (TE) - has only appeared in two games
4(131) = Brandon Mosley (T) - on IR this season
6(201) = Matt McCants (T) - currently on PS
7(239) = Marcus Kuhn (DT) - tore his ACL this year, only had 8 tackles.


So where is this quality depth from the 4th round and beyond with a team with a "real GM"?

[preacher238]

And the beat goes on.....SMH

[wittenacious]

[Idgit]

I have huge quibbles with this 'reasonable outlook.' If you're going to look at the effectiveness of teams' draft picks you can't do it in a vacuum. Two thirds of team's first-round picks, collectively, never make it to a probowl. Yet fans consistently have expectations for players that aren't realistic, and end up dissatisfied with effective draft picks as a result.

A very good draft is going to net you three starters and a couple of role players. Two starters and some role players is solid. We'd probably never agree on a metric, but someone with more time on their hands that I have has probably come up with a draft efficiency index that takes %games played/%games started/probowls/time in league/whatever other relevant factors into account.

Failing, that, though, you can at least look at the net players added each of the last three years--this time including the college FA who are, of course, also the by product of the team's scouting and selection process.


2010

1(24) Dez Bryant WR Oklahoma St. - This looks more and more like a bad decision by the day. (He's on track for 80 catches and over 1,000 yards this season. Not what I wanted him to be at this point in his career, but hardly a 'bad decision.')

2(55) Sean Lee ILB Penn St. - Injury concerns but still a hit. (One of the most promising ILBs in the league already, as as second round pick. Yeah. I'd say he was 'a hit.')

4(126) Akwasi Owusu-Ansah CB Indiana (Pa.) - Wasted pick. (Overstatement. He made the roster and was an insignificant role player. He at least played in games in the league for two different teams.

6(179) Sam Young T Notre Dame - Garbage. (Not garbage, but not a successful pick).

6(196) Jamar Wall CB Texas Tech - Couldn't play.

7(234) Sean Lissemore - Looks like a decent role player. Hit. (A 7th round role-player who's working his way into the lineup as a starter, yeah. Looks like a hit).

What's missing from your list for 2010? OC Phil Costa (starting OC), S Barry Church (starting S), S Danny McCray (injury replacement to starting S), FB Chris Gronkowski (minor role player, miss).

2011
1(9) Tyron Smith T USC - Grand Slam. (Not a grand slam in my book. Starter, though).

2(40) Bruce Carter OLB North Carolina - Beast. (Yep.)

3(71) DeMarco Murray RB Oklahoma - Solid pick but injury prone. (This was the steal of the third round, and maybe of the entire draft. Pair him with Smith and Carter, and you've already got your third starter for this year).

4(110) David Arkin T Missouri St. - Can't play. (Overstatement. He's a developing player and not yet a significant role player, but he's in contention for snaps next year, at least as in injury replacement to a starter if not in outright competition for RG next training camp. We knew coming out that he was going to need time in the weight room to develop).

5(143) Josh Thomas CB Buffalo - Swing and a miss.

6(176) Dwayne Harris WR East Carolina - Could be an emerging return man. (Pretty clearly already an emerged return man. Could be an emerging WR).

7(220) Shaun Chapas FB Georgia - Not an NFL player. (He was on the DET practice squad, last I'd heard).

7(252) Bill Nagy C Wisconsin - Shown nothing and injury prone. (If he's shown nothing, I'm curious why the Lions snagged him, injured, when we tried to sneak him through waivers? Because you're understating his ability, that's why).

And, you'd neglected to credit the UDFAs again:

RB Phillip Tanner (backup RB), OC Kevin Kowalski (active on game days once he's back in the rotation?), OLB Alex Albright (getting snaps on teams and in defensive packages), K Dan Bailey (starting kicker, and very good).


2012
1(6) Morris Claiborne CB LSU - Actually cost 1(14) and 2(45). Nice player, waaaaaay overpaid for him. No impact whatsoever. (Nonsense. Starter, with huge potential. Was a tremendous value where he was selected at a position of major need).

3(81) Tyrone Crawford DE Boise St. - Has shown nothing yet to warrant the pick but it's still early. (Has shown plenty. Is already a role player, and someone I think competes for starting snaps as early as next season).

4(113) Kyle Wilber OLB Purdue - Is he on the team? Oh. (Yes, and someone who plays a deep position, missed most of the offseason and then required surgery to repair a broken thumb. We'll see next season what his prospects really are, but you're premature to consider him a miss).

4(135) Matt Johnson S Eastern Washington - Evil Knievel had less injuries. Which could be saving us from seeing he can't play. Like his draft grade outside of Dallas suggests. (No way to say b/c of the injuries. No idea how you've concluded they're masking the fact that he can't play b/c the coaches have been high on him for what little time he's gotten).

5(152) Danny Coale WR Virginia Tech - Practice squad. (Yep)

6(186) James Hanna TE Oklahoma - Hasn't done anything but hasn't had a chance yet either. A complete unknown. (6th round pick that made the team and gets snaps as a role player. That's not nothing).

7(222) Caleb McSurdy ILB Montana St. - Everybody's favorite lunch pail pick. Then camp started. Selling insurance in the fall of 2013.

You're forgetting Beasley (role player on offense), Dunbar (role player on offense), Leary (practice squad) and Benford (practice squad, I think). And now Bass (called up to the active roster).

That's a quality three year run in my book. I think it's a quality run in most books, and it's just that fans have relatively unrealistic expectations for what sort of snaps a drafted player is going to be able to give you.

You can tell when people are walking around calling Marcus Spears a bust that they don't have even a vague idea how difficult it really is to find guys who can stick on your roster for 8-9 seasons. You've only got 22 starting positions + specialty players on a roster for any given year. A lot of those slots are filled by veteran FAs. That doesn't leave too many slots open for 7 full rounds of picks over multiple seasons and including successful college FAs.

[jobberone]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

Our last three drafts that equates to a "pretty good run", with a reasonable outlook on each pick....

2010
1(24) Dez Bryant WR Oklahoma St. - This looks more and more like a bad decision by the day.
2(55) Sean Lee ILB Penn St. - Injury concerns but still a hit.
4(126) Akwasi Owusu-Ansah CB Indiana (Pa.) - Wasted pick.
6(179) Sam Young T Notre Dame - Garbage.
6(196) Jamar Wall CB Texas Tech - Couldn't play.
7(234) Sean Lissemore - Looks like a decent role player. Hit.

So what we have here is one really good player but he's injury prone. He may or may not have a great career because of it. Dez is an infant mentally. We all know he's not reaching his potential. Lissemore is a rotational sub.

[View Full Quote]I basically agree although I'm not that concerned about Lee. I think he's a star. Bryant the vote is not in yet although I agree its a concern. Lissemore may prove more than a role player and I'd say in this defense he will get a decent share of snaps at least.

2011
1(9) Tyron Smith T USC - Grand Slam.
2(40) Bruce Carter OLB North Carolina - Beast.
3(71) DeMarco Murray RB Oklahoma - Solid pick but injury prone.
4(110) David Arkin T Missouri St. - Can't play.
5(143) Josh Thomas CB Buffalo - Swing and a miss.
6(176) Dwayne Harris WR East Carolina - Could be an emerging return man.
7(220) Shaun Chapas FB Georgia - Not an NFL player.
7(252) Bill Nagy C Wisconsin - Shown nothing and injury prone.

Two outstanding players at the top and another that could be if he could ever stay on the field. The last 5 picks were a waste unless Harris sticks as an impact return man and/or receiver.

Smith, Carter and Murray are big hits; all three. Arkin can't grade. Harris incomplete, too. Nagy incomplete. Generally for you one to three SDs toward the end of the negative side of the spectrum.

2012
1(6) Morris Claiborne CB LSU - Actually cost 1(14) and 2(45). Nice player, waaaaaay overpaid for him. No impact whatsoever.
3(81) Tyrone Crawford DE Boise St. - Has shown nothing yet to warrant the pick but it's still early.
4(113) Kyle Wilber OLB Purdue - Is he on the team? Oh.
4(135) Matt Johnson S Eastern Washington - Evil Knievel had less injuries. Which could be saving us from seeing he can't play. Like his draft grade outside of Dallas suggests.
5(152) Danny Coale WR Virginia Tech - Practice squad.
6(186) James Hanna TE Oklahoma - Hasn't done anything but hasn't had a chance yet either. A complete unknown.
7(222) Caleb McSurdy ILB Montana St. - Everybody's favorite lunch pail pick. Then camp started. Selling insurance in the fall of 2013.

We stand a very good chance of coming out of the 2012 draft with, wait for it, a cornerback. ~confetti~.....~party noise makers~

More negative hyperbole. Claiborne has played well above the normal rookie CB even a top ten one. His cost is a separate issue to his play. Crawford plays well esp for being an injured rookie. He had trouble walking off the field in the Atl game and he was still getting decent pressure. I look for him to be at least pretty dang good. The rest get incompletes as they should with Hanna being an intriguing pick so far.

Now I would agree this three year clip is better than Jerry's norm, but Jerry's norm is horrific. There's a huge gap from that to quality and I think it's a real stretch to claim we're on a "pretty good run" here with our drafting. In fact, if you look at the 4th round on, when teams build their quality depth, we're still pretty bad.

Would I like better? Sure but the haul is pretty decent and may turn out a good deal better than that.

[Mr_Bill]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

I don't care who says it. Anyone who tries to tell me Jerry Jones is kind of like an athletic director, an empty suit and doesn't routinely exercise his power as GM and final decision maker on this team is wrong. Way wrong. He wouldn't covet the gig so much if he didn't like the power.

I'm literally embarrassed that we even have to have this debate.

Right on cue.

[JBell523]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

Our last three drafts that equates to a "pretty good run", with a reasonable outlook on each pick....

2010
1(24) Dez Bryant WR Oklahoma St. - This looks more and more like a bad decision by the day.
2(55) Sean Lee ILB Penn St. - Injury concerns but still a hit.
4(126) Akwasi Owusu-Ansah CB Indiana (Pa.) - Wasted pick.
6(179) Sam Young T Notre Dame - Garbage.
6(196) Jamar Wall CB Texas Tech - Couldn't play.
7(234) Sean Lissemore - Looks like a decent role player. Hit.

So what we have here is one really good player but he's injury prone. He may or may not have a great career because of it. Dez is an infant mentally. We all know he's not reaching his potential. Lissemore is a rotational sub.

2011
1(9) Tyron Smith T USC - Grand Slam.
2(40) Bruce Carter OLB North Carolina - Beast.
3(71) DeMarco Murray RB Oklahoma - Solid pick but injury prone.
[View Full Quote]4(110) David Arkin T Missouri St. - Can't play.
5(143) Josh Thomas CB Buffalo - Swing and a miss.
6(176) Dwayne Harris WR East Carolina - Could be an emerging return man.
7(220) Shaun Chapas FB Georgia - Not an NFL player.
7(252) Bill Nagy C Wisconsin - Shown nothing and injury prone.

Two outstanding players at the top and another that could be if he could ever stay on the field. The last 5 picks were a waste unless Harris sticks as an impact return man and/or receiver.

2012
1(6) Morris Claiborne CB LSU - Actually cost 1(14) and 2(45). Nice player, waaaaaay overpaid for him. No impact whatsoever.
3(81) Tyrone Crawford DE Boise St. - Has shown nothing yet to warrant the pick but it's still early.
4(113) Kyle Wilber OLB Purdue - Is he on the team? Oh.
4(135) Matt Johnson S Eastern Washington - Evil Knievel had less injuries. Which could be saving us from seeing he can't play. Like his draft grade outside of Dallas suggests.
5(152) Danny Coale WR Virginia Tech - Practice squad.
6(186) James Hanna TE Oklahoma - Hasn't done anything but hasn't had a chance yet either. A complete unknown.
7(222) Caleb McSurdy ILB Montana St. - Everybody's favorite lunch pail pick. Then camp started. Selling insurance in the fall of 2013.

We stand a very good chance of coming out of the 2012 draft with, wait for it, a cornerback. ~confetti~.....~party noise makers~

Now I would agree this three year clip is better than Jerry's norm, but Jerry's norm is horrific. There's a huge gap from that to quality and I think it's a real stretch to claim we're on a "pretty good run" here with our drafting. In fact, if you look at the 4th round on, when teams build their quality depth, we're still pretty bad.

Easily my favorite poster on CZ.

[Idgit]

Originally Posted by JBell523

Easily my favorite poster on CZ.

How nice for you. Risen Star's a fine poster. He just happens to be wrong about how much talent we've been able to add to the roster the last three seasons.

Originally Posted by Bluestang

Yet the drama persists with other threads, doesn't it?

Missed this earlier. The 'drama' in the other threads right now is just a bunch of depressed Cowboys fans who don't handle their frustration and disappointment very well. It poisons debate, mostly because the unhappy try desperately to make every thread about whatever they happen to be unhappy about, and it's annoying.

I distinguish it from the problems you get when there's personal dislike between posters that lets discussions become about the posters rather than the football topics. It's a fine line, and one I've crossed over a few times myself, but it's an important distinction.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by Idgit

How nice for you. Risen Star's a fine poster. He just happens to be wrong about how much talent we've been able to add to the roster the last three seasons.

I'm wrong? How so? I've pretty much said the 1st through 3rd round picks aren't an issue the last three years but we haven't added much from the 4th round on.

I don't include UDFAs because your comment dealt with the draft. That isn't the draft. That's after the draft. Of course I have a completely different opinion on Phil Costa than you do anyway.

I also don't prop up 4th round picks if they play in a few games for a couple of teams. Nor do I crown a return man for one return. See Dantzler, Woodrow. You're grading on a fan curve. The fact of the matter is only one player taken from rounds 4-7 the last three years has a real role in the offense or defense of this team. Sean Lissemore.

Now could this change? Sure. Wilber could arrive. A team of doctors could patch Matt Johnson back together. But as we sit here today, there's been almost nobody you can claim is quality depth. We have a crisis along our interior OL. Our 4th round pick from 2011 should help to fill it. Instead we're sifting through the veteran scrap heap to find anything serviceable and giving up more picks in the process. So I'm failing to see all this talent we're adding. I see top heavy draft classes. Which is an admitted improvement. Under Jerry, they usually don't weigh anything. But a "pretty good run" it does not make.