Kill! Kill! Kill! - Dallas Cowboys Forum

onetrickpony · 11-15-2012

OK, I understand the concept Garrett has here on calling two plays and giving Romo a choice based on how he sees the defense line up. My problem is that I think the defenses have figured out that they can dictate to the offense with a false presnap read. This is what I see happening (or at least I think it is what is happening).

Garrett calls a pass play on second and short and the O formation shows a high probability of a pass. Maybe he wants Romo to take a peek down the field, taking advantage of the natural defensive tendancies in this situation where the D has to play pass and run. The D shows a fake blitz, causing Romo to switch to a run play. This allows the D to play run only and smother the back for little or no gain. The run play is also from a pass formation which makes it less likely to be successful. I saw this multiple times in the last several games.

There are also other bad things that occur when the play changes. The O line has to hold their stances longer, making a false start more likely. If the play was late coming in (which is natural because you are calling two plays instead of one) it can end in a delay call.

I think this tendancy was masked somewhat when Murray was in the line up. His skills could overcome the problems brought on by running from a pass formation while Felix and Dunbar just don't have that skill set.

I see similar issues when Romo changes from a run to a pass. Recievers may not be on the same page, causing Ints and Incs. Is it time to dump the double play call and change to some other form of option?

rocboy22 · 11-15-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by onetrickpony

OK, I understand the concept Garrett has here on calling two plays and giving Romo a choice based on how he sees the defense line up. My problem is that I think the defenses have figured out that they can dictate to the offense with a false presnap read. This is what I see happening (or at least I think it is what is happening).

Garrett calls a pass play on second and short and the O formation shows a high probability of a pass. Maybe he wants Romo to take a peek down the field, taking advantage of the natural defensive tendancies in this situation where the D has to play pass and run. The D shows a fake blitz, causing Romo to switch to a run play. This allows the D to play run only and smother the back for little or no gain. The run play is also from a pass formation which makes it less likely to be successful. I saw this multiple times in the last several games.

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I don't know for a fact, but I would assume that "kill, kill, kill" does not always mean to switch from run to pass or pass to run. It could be meaningless. Maybe not, I do not sit in the meetings, but it would be very moronic for this to always mean the same exact thing, game in and game out.

Doomsday101 · 11-15-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocboy22

I don't know for a fact, but I would assume that "kill, kill, kill" does not always mean to switch from run to pass or pass to run. It could be meaningless. Maybe not, I do not sit in the meetings, but it would be very moronic for this to always mean the same exact thing, game in and game out.

I would agree. Kind of like Omaha, Omaha, Omaha that Eli calls out all the time. Every team does it. This is not madden, this is not back yard football.
There are 2 plays that come in not always the same plays and based on what the defense is lined up in will determine what Dallas does.

rocboy22 · 11-15-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

I would agree. Kind of like Omaha, Omaha, Omaha that Eli calls out all the time. Every team does it. This is not madden, this is not back yard football.
There are 2 plays that come in not always the same plays and based on what the defense is lined up in will determine what Dallas does.

and those two plays can't always be run or pass. There has to be situations where there are 2 different runs, or 2 different passes.

chip_gilkey · 11-15-2012

I remember during one of our games a commentator, maybe collinsworth, saying that there is a misconception that when he says kill that there are switching to a 2nd play that was called in the huddle. He said this was simply untrue and that sometimes its the truth but other times it could mean something else or nothing at all.

Doomsday101 · 11-15-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocboy22

and those two plays can't always be run or pass. There has to be situations where there are 2 different runs, or 2 different passes.

True, I would think much of the time it does involve the run going from a pass to say a draw but it could just as easy be a pass to a screen. Worst thing we could do is not call a play off when we see the defense is set up in an alignment or a coverage package that put them in the better position to make a play.

Fact is every team in the league does it, as Cowboy fans we hear kill from Romo but every team has the ability to call off a play and go to another play.

Zordon · 11-15-2012

the league figured out this offense 2 years ago.

Doomsday101 · 11-15-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zordon

the league figured out this offense 2 years ago.

You don't think teams know what Houston is going to do? or GB is going to do? hell watch the games they run the same stuff week in and week out but when you execute the play they tend to have a better chance of working.

There are no big secrets around the league NY offense is same old thing

ShiningStar · 11-15-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zordon

the league figured out this offense 2 years ago.

okay allow me to let the cat out of the bag that has been eluding so many fans. Regardless of how you do it, the intention is for the ball to go forward. yeah thats it. whether running it or passing it, which isnt a big mystery PLUS even if you go side to side, or backwards, still have to get that ball forward.

Thats it, thats the secret. 32 teams agree, ball has to go forward. Now some teams are hoping you dont get it forward, or forward enough, but the goal of all teams is to move the ball forward.

There ya go, all teams do it.

TwoDeep3 · 11-15-2012

The Giants use Omaha

Atlanta was using Baltimore and one other but I cannot remember what it was.

Marktui · 11-15-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zordon

the league figured out this offense 2 years ago.

I think execution by the players is the real culprit of this offense. Too many breakdowns in blocking, sight adjustments on routes, missed throws from Romo and of course penalties.

**Sarge** · 11-15-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marktui

I think execution by the players is the real culprit of this offense. Too many breakdowns in blocking, sight adjustments on routes, missed throws from Romo and of course penalties.

This is true - the team has many issues. It is going to take more time than many think to correct it all.

I'm excited about where the defense is headed though. It's really shaping up well, and we have had a lot of injuries on that side of the ball.

Neverhood · 11-15-2012

I'm in a rush so didn't read through all the posts but this is pretty basic. Two plays are not always called in the huddle, and when there is only 1 play called Romo kill kill kills the play to nothing cause there is no other play. The kill kill kill is simply to make the defense audible etc, chess match.

D29Murray · 11-15-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

I would agree. Kind of like Omaha, Omaha, Omaha that Eli calls out all the time. Every team does it. This is not madden, this is not back yard football.
There are 2 plays that come in not always the same plays and based on what the defense is lined up in will determine what Dallas does.

Eli says "Ohmaha" when the clock's running out, lol.

chip_gilkey · 11-15-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by D29Murray

Eli says "Ohmaha" when the clock's running out, lol.

It's a good thing Romo doesn't do that because he's be saying Ohmaha every snap pretty much.