Raiders DE Desmond Bryant would be a good 3-4 DE

[BAT]

Originally Posted by rocyaice

Ngata and Seymour have one more sack than Jason Hatcher and Jason Hatcher has 2 more sacks than Justin Smith.

I am sure you understand what these posters are referring to when they speak about playmaking 3-4 DEs. Seymour, Trevor Price and Shaun Ellis were the best of their era but have been bypassed by Justin Smith, Haloti Ngata, Darnell Dockett and Calais Campbell. Each of these guys have had double digit sack seasons from the 3-4 DE spot.

Watt is not the first 3-4 DE to do what he has done. In addition to the guys above, Bruce Smith, Neil Smith, Elvin Bethea, Howie Long, Leslie O'Neal, Ray Childress, Lee Williams, Rulon Jones, Leonard Marshall, Lyle Alzado, William Fuller, Greg Townsend, Sean Jones all came before Watt.

Watt is special, no doubt, but he is not unique.

[sbark]

Could've added Ratliff to the pressure DE in 3-4 if we'd have left him at the position.......

but that is rueing .......

[DallasDW00ds0n]

Originally Posted by rocyaice

Ngata and Seymour have one more sack than Jason Hatcher and Jason Hatcher has 2 more sacks than Justin Smith.

Hatcher has 1.5 sacks on the year.

We not talking just sack numbers, were talking pressure DEs in passing situations. Im sorry but Hatcher does not have the same impact on the pocket as Smith, Ngata, and Seymour... and you know that...

If someone dangled Ngata and Hatcher in your face and you picked Hatcher... (smh)

[Shinywalrus]

Originally Posted by jday

In a 3-4, stats for a defensive lineman can be very misleading because the sole function of a defensive lineman in the 34 is to soak up blocks so the linebackers can make plays. Therefore, if the linebackers that traditionally lineup behind said defensive lineman have a bunch of stops for loss or within 3 yards of the scrimmage, that is a pretty good sign the defensive lineman at the very least is doing his job.

This might have been true 15-20 years ago. It's rarely true for any form of 34 or 52 that is played today. Why do we keep saying this?

[Manwiththeplan]

Originally Posted by Apollo Creed

He's an anomaly, exception to the rule. He's the only one out of the 30-40 3-4 DE's in the league that put up numbers.

he's better than the other 3-4 DEs, but the notion that 3-4 DE's only job is to occupy blockers is false. There are other guys that put up good sack numbers.

[Ultimategamer5567]

Originally Posted by Manwiththeplan

he's better than the other 3-4 DEs, but the notion that 3-4 DE's only job is to occupy blockers is false. There are other guys that put up good sack numbers.

This. Our own Jason Hatcher had - count 'em - 4.5 sacks last year. What does that tell you?

[Manwiththeplan]

Originally Posted by rocyaice

Ngata and Seymour have one more sack than Jason Hatcher and Jason Hatcher has 2 more sacks than Justin Smith.

Smith and Seymour are towards the end of their careers, but in their prime as 3-4 ends, they put up between 6-8 sacks routinely.

Haloti Ngata is more of a NT. He plays DE because Baltimore has had other good NTs to pair with him (kelly gregg/terrence cody/Ma'ake Kemoeatu) and he has the athleticism to collapse a pocket, but his game resembles a NT more than a DE.

[Manwiththeplan]

Originally Posted by Ultimategamer5567

This. Our own Jason Hatcher had - count 'em - 4.5 sacks last year. What does that tell you?

Which would've been great if the guy opposite him was 6+

[jday]

Originally Posted by Shinywalrus

This might have been true 15-20 years ago. It's rarely true for any form of 34 or 52 that is played today. Why do we keep saying this?

Seriously? I'm not even going to argue with you. Not worth my time.

[Manwiththeplan]

Originally Posted by jday

Seriously? I'm not even going to argue with you. Not worth my time.

You can go back and look at the stats, most teams that run a 3-4 have atleast 1 DE who puts up sack numbers that make the whole "only there to occupy blockers" argument laughable.

[Rack Bauer]

Originally Posted by Manwiththeplan

how many sacks does JJ Watt have to get before people stop saying this?

He's the exception, not the rule.

[Manwiththeplan]

Originally Posted by Rack Bauer

He's the exception, not the rule.

What about the 8 calias campbell put up last year? Just a fluke? What about the 7.5 that Justin Smith put up last year? Something in the water?

While JJ Watt is out producing even the best 3-4 DEs, it's laughable for anyone to say the sole responsibility of a 3-4 DE is to occupy blockers.

[jday]

Originally Posted by Manwiththeplan

What about the 8 calias campbell put up last year? Just a fluke? What about the 7.5 that Justin Smith put up last year? Something in the water?

While JJ Watt is out producing even the best 3-4 DEs, it's laughable for anyone to say the sole responsibility of a 3-4 DE is to occupy blockers.

You are missing the point of my initial post.

[BAT]

Originally Posted by jday

You are missing the point of my initial post.

Your initial post said that 3-4 defensive stats are misleading because the DL in a 3-4's SOLE function is to occupy blockers. This is false.

The DL's role in a 3-4 depends on the type of 3-4 that is used. This statement may be true for the Fairbanks 3-4, but this system is practically obsolete today. And even in its heyday with the NYG, Leonard Marshall was racking up the sacks from that position. He had THREE double digit sack seasons (15.5 was his most) and THREE more seasons of 8+ sacks.

[Shinywalrus]

Originally Posted by BAT

Your initial post said that 3-4 defensive stats are misleading because the DL in a 3-4's SOLE function is to occupy blockers. This is false.

The DL's role in a 3-4 depends on the type of 3-4 that is used. This statement may be true for the Fairbanks 3-4, but this system is practically obsolete today. And even in its heyday with the NYG, Leonard Marshall was racking up the sacks from that position. He had THREE double digit sack seasons (15.5 was his most) and THREE more seasons of 8+ sacks.

The problem with the OP is even more fundamental. Watch Hatcher's assignment on any given drive on All-22. Freeze before every play and just look.

Any game that I've charted has Hatcher lining up at several different techniques with vastly variable assignments. The idea that there is a prototype role for 34 defensive ends that has anything to do with soaking up blocks on every play is extremely outdated.