So jealous of Cleveland's offensive line

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

Three more wins and a chance for a division lead with 3/5 of the oline missing it's starters.

And if we had their OL, I sure we'd be more that three wins ahead.

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by jterrell

thats just patently false and complete BS.

this OL was VERY GOOD for many of those 15 years.
flozell, gurode and others were quite quality players.
the OL was a team strength on some of those sad teams we during that period.

we are on about year 3 of crap ol play. 1 year with declining, expensive vets who had previously been very good and 2 years of rebuilding it.

nonsensical posts like this are why i hate this fan base. it is a complete lack of honesty or reference.

This OL was never “Very Good” in any of the past 15 years.
Sure we had some quality players but the unit as a hole was made to look soo much better by the elusiveness and ability of one Tony Romo.

How good did Adams, Gurode, Davis etc. look with Bledsoe behind centre?

[CowboysFaninDC]

Originally Posted by TTexasTT

They have a nice foundation there in Cleveland. Young QB that looks pretty good. Legit hard nosed RB, stud LB, strong DL and a shut down corner in Haden.

they do. they really haven't been blown out of any games this year but 1. they are learning and they go into the 4th quarter in the game, each time. they haven't been an easy out at all for anyone

[fanfromvirginia]

Originally Posted by jterrell

thats just patently false and complete BS.

this OL was VERY GOOD for many of those 15 years.
flozell, gurode and others were quite quality players.
the OL was a team strength on some of those sad teams we during that period.

we are on about year 3 of crap ol play. 1 year with declining, expensive vets who had previously been very good and 2 years of rebuilding it.

nonsensical posts like this are why i hate this fan base. it is a complete lack of honesty or reference.

Slightly exaggerated, maybe. Patently false and BS, no and I think you know it, thus the defensive overreaction on your part. You named some good players but failed to name the year we weren't mediocre for more than a few games at a time. I will do your job for you -- 2007. Adams, Kosier, Gurode, Davis, Colombo. 2007 was the exception thst proved the rule and even those guys weren't consistently great that year. If memory serves they had already started breaking down by December.

[fanfromvirginia]

Originally Posted by jterrell

You are providing the right answers and still not making the obvious logical truths out of it.

Dallas had a lot of holes. They were going to patch some positions. Last year CB simply kept them from winning games, period. They had zero chance with TNew, Jenkins and Scandrick.

So we could have signed the top OG on the market for Brandon Carr money. But can you imagine this pass defense minus Carr??? Seriously. I don't even know what CB would have started alongside Scandrick while Jenkins is out.

Dallas has rebuilt it's old, slow ILB corps by adding Lee and Carter? Were those bad draft picks? Did we not need to draft DeMarco Murray?

Where are all these wasteful picks?
People are just inherently dishonest in these evaluations. Dallas missed on a number of reasonably high draft picks along the OL. IT ISNT BECAUSE THEY IGNORED IT.

2003: Al Johnson round 2
[View Full Quote]2004: Jacob Rogers round 2, Steve Peterman round 3
2005: Rob Pettiti round 6 (listed because he had a reasonable NFL career)
2006: Pat McQuistan round 7 (but still in the NFL today)
2007: James Marten round 3, Doug Free round 4
2008:
2009: Robert Brewster round 3
2010: Sam Young round 6 (((RW11 pillaged draft))))
2011: Tyron Smith round 1, David Arkin round 4
2012:

If we turn 2 of the 6 guys we drafted in the top 4 rounds I have highlighted into average NFL OL we are not even looking at OL as an area of weakness.

One: they were going after those guys because their OLs sucked. Two: five is not that many picks in the first three rounds for an 8-year-period (03-10), especially considering none were first rounders.

I do grant that BP tried and whiffed. After whiffing, I think the FO got gun shy on early round OL picks.

[Oh_Canada]

I find it kind of comical that people keep pointing out how great the olines Cleveland and 49ers have and yet the Browns have given up more pressures and the 49ers more sacks and hurries. Both these teams have been relatively healthy along the offensive lines unlike the Cowboys. Of course people will point to the great Romo's elusiveness masking what is otherwise a sieve of an oline, but that fortress littered with first rd picks in San Francisco was torched for five sacks by the Rams the week prior. Kapernick was the QB for most of that game and I think it's fair to say he has at least some of Romo's athleticism.
Sorry, but most teams would be in the same position if they were missing they're starting left tackle, center and guard as the Cowboys were last week and we have yet to see this line together for any amout of time to make any kind of conclusion on the effectiveness of the group.

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

I find it kind of comical that people keep pointing out how great the olines Cleveland and 49ers have and yet the Browns have given up more pressures and the 49ers more sacks and hurries. Both these teams have been relatively healthy along the offensive lines unlike the Cowboys. Of course people will point to the great Romo's elusiveness masking what is otherwise a sieve of an oline, but that fortress littered with first rd picks in San Francisco was torched for five sacks by the Rams the week prior. Kapernick was the QB for most of that game and I think it's fair to say he has at least some of Romo's athleticism.
Sorry, but most teams would be in the same position if they were missing they're starting left tackle, center and guard as the Cowboys were last week and we have yet to see this line together for any amout of time to make any kind of conclusion on the effectiveness of the group.

To point out one or two games and say with any certainty that an OL is good, bad or indifferent is wrong.

Even the Boy’s OL from the early 90’s had their moments when they were bad (Philly getting 11 sacks in Texas stadium in 91 springs to mind).

In addition I see you neglect to mention the Brown’s and 49’ers ability to run the ball effectively. How long has it been since Dallas could do that?

Finally to say Kapernick has some of Romo’s athleticism doesn’t mean his combination of experience and elusiveness is anywhere near as effective.

I’ll grant you the injuries haven’t helped but we’ve no depth and some of our starters would only be backups on any team with a decent OL.

[Oh_Canada]

Originally Posted by IrishAnto

To point out one or two games and say with any certainty that an OL is good, bad or indifferent is wrong.

Even the Boy’s OL from the early 90’s had their moments when they were bad (Philly getting 11 sacks in Texas stadium in 91 springs to mind).

In addition I see you neglect to mention the Brown’s and 49’ers ability to run the ball effectively. How long has it been since Dallas could do that?

Finally to say Kapernick has some of Romo’s athleticism doesn’t mean his combination of experience and elusiveness is anywhere near as effective.

I’ll grant you the injuries haven’t helped but we’ve no depth and some of our starters would only be backups on any team with a decent OL.

Guess you missed the stats outlining where the Cowboys are in relation to the vaunted Niners Oline and Cleveland's 2-8 oline...those are over the course of the ENTIRE year.

How many times does Romo (who admits he does this) hold on to the ball the extra second or two in order to make a play??? He is elusive I grant you, but there are times he doesn't do his oline any favors.

I did neglect to mention the running game, because we are all missing one large variable from the equation. Demarco Murray has misssed half the season. Did the Vikings run the ball as effectively without Adrian Peterson???? No. Did they suddenly become a better oline this year or could it have ANYTHING to do with AP's return???? The Browns average 3.7 yds per rush and 92.5 yds per game WITH Trant Richardson on the roster. It's not like they are gashing people.

We all can agree, the Cowboys need to replace Free sooner rather than later, but this incessant call for replacing 4/5 of the oline is ridiculous. We just have not had a large enough sample size to conclude anything with the oline.

[MartinRamone]

They are a QB and DB(other than Haden) from being good. They are playing a ton of rookies and have competed with most teams they played against even with Weeden as starter.

[cowboysooner]

Over 5 years, you get 10 1st and 2nd round picks. There are 22 starting positions. You are pretty fortunate if you have 7 good players from drafts 6 years ago or longer.

You are going to be short somewhere and you must be good at picking up 3-5th round picks and getting good, cheap free agents.

The biggest problem and misjudgment has been the play of Free.

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

Guess you missed the stats outlining where the Cowboys are in relation to the vaunted Niners Oline and Cleveland's 2-8 oline...those are over the course of the ENTIRE year.

How many times does Romo (who admits he does this) hold on to the ball the extra second or two in order to make a play??? He is elusive I grant you, but there are times he doesn't do his oline any favors.

I did neglect to mention the running game, because we are all missing one large variable from the equation. Demarco Murray has misssed half the season. Did the Vikings run the ball as effectively without Adrian Peterson???? No. Did they suddenly become a better oline this year or could it have ANYTHING to do with AP's return???? The Browns average 3.7 yds per rush and 92.5 yds per game WITH Trant Richardson on the roster. It's not like they are gashing people.

[View Full Quote]We all can agree, the Cowboys need to replace Free sooner rather than later, but this incessant call for replacing 4/5 of the oline is ridiculous. We just have not had a large enough sample size to conclude anything with the oline.

Quite frankly with or without Demarco Murray this team hasn't run well this year so while I'm sure there would be improvement with him in the line-up I don't for one minute think you would call us good.

As for waiting on a decent sample size to judge this OL think about this.

Wouldn’t you think a bad team like Carolina would need all the good young talent it could get its hands on so why would they let Bernadeau go?

Again Cincinnati looks capable of making a playoff push so again would continuity on their OL be important but Livings was let go.

Dockery’s best days (however good they were) are long gone.

Costa, all of a sudden he’s the OL savoir?

And Free’s performance is up and down like the preverbal whore’s drawers.

And you say all we need to replace is Free?

[fanfromvirginia]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

Guess you missed the stats outlining where the Cowboys are in relation to the vaunted Niners Oline and Cleveland's 2-8 oline...those are over the course of the ENTIRE year.

How many times does Romo (who admits he does this) hold on to the ball the extra second or two in order to make a play??? He is elusive I grant you, but there are times he doesn't do his oline any favors.

I did neglect to mention the running game, because we are all missing one large variable from the equation. Demarco Murray has misssed half the season. Did the Vikings run the ball as effectively without Adrian Peterson???? No. Did they suddenly become a better oline this year or could it have ANYTHING to do with AP's return???? The Browns average 3.7 yds per rush and 92.5 yds per game WITH Trant Richardson on the roster. It's not like they are gashing people.

[View Full Quote]We all can agree, the Cowboys need to replace Free sooner rather than later, but this incessant call for replacing 4/5 of the oline is ridiculous. We just have not had a large enough sample size to conclude anything with the oline.

There are many who are calling for four new OL. I agree that that is a bit much but certainly think the problem is more than just Free. Once again (see my sig), the truth is likely somewhere in between the CZ extremes. I'd like to see three offseason additions, with at least two replacements. You need at least a new RT but LT would be safer, which would allow for Tyron to slide back over. We need another guard. Let the third acquisition, Costa, Cook, Killer, Livings and Bernie fight it out for C and the other guard position.

[Kangaroo]

Originally Posted by fanfromvirginia

There are many who are calling for four new OL. I agree that that is a bit much but certainly think the problem is more than just Free. Once again (see my sig), the truth is likely somewhere in between the CZ extremes. I'd like to see three offseason additions, with at least two replacements. You need at least a new RT but LT would be safer, which would allow for Tyron to slide back over. We need another guard. Let the third acquisition, Costa, Cook, Killer, Livings and Bernie fight it out for C and the other guard position.

Arkin as well next year will be his 3rd he has to be ready to be in the mix or gone by the time training camp is over. Cook could be a backup swing tackle as well since he has played RT before.

[Deep_Freeze]

Originally Posted by IrishAnto

If you look at Deep_Freeze's posts you'll find that's his MO, although to be fair he's not the only one.

Was going to ignore this, but I'm bored, your constant whining about the team is always a joy to read.

I took up for the OL, shoot me. Rather do that than bring the constant negative posts that alot, including yourself, always bring to the board. I'm not perfect, but I refuse to come on here to just dog the team post after post. I will leave that to you.

[Oh_Canada]

Originally Posted by IrishAnto

Quite frankly with or without Demarco Murray this team hasn't run well this year so while I'm sure there would be improvement with him in the line-up I don't for one minute think you would call us good.

As for waiting on a decent sample size to judge this OL think about this.

Wouldn’t you think a bad team like Carolina would need all the good young talent it could get its hands on so why would they let Bernadeau go?

Again Cincinnati looks capable of making a playoff push so again would continuity on their OL be important but Livings was let go.

Dockery’s best days (however good they were) are long gone.

Costa, all of a sudden he’s the OL savoir?

And Free’s performance is up and down like the preverbal whore’s drawers.

And you say all we need to replace is Free?

Murray has rushed for 4.4 yds per carry...that's hardly bad and without the starting center for much of those carries.

Who cares why the Bengals/Panthers let go of Livings/Bern? Saints let Carl Nicks walk....what is that mean? Wasn't Kosier set free by the Lions who had an atrocious line at the time?
Livings has graded out well (PFF/Broaddus) regardless of what some posters believe. Bern has played much better as the season has gone on, but I have no problem seeing another guard drafted for competition sake. You cannot possibly give up on a 22 year-old tackle with All-Pro ability this early. Costa has about five games to prove he is worth keeping as a starter and it's my belief he will. Leaves us with Doug Free at RT, who I think is unmotivated and disinterested as the single most important position needing replacement this offseason.
You have Nagy coming back from injury, Killa, Arkin and Leary as competition. Draft or sign a OT and let Free walk. I think you'll see major improvements, barring injury of course. I really think this oline thing is overblown because a lot of posters still have there panties in a bunch over not drafting the All-World Decastro last offseason. No team can sustain this many injuries to a unit that is ruled by continuity and trust between players, especially one who had many changes to it last offseason.