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Old 11-21-2012   #31
Doomsday101
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3rd in the NFL is giving up the fewest TD passes. No doubt would like to see more ints but let’s not act as if this secondary is some sieve. It is not by accident Dallas is ranked high in pass defense.
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Old 11-21-2012   #32
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When you don't get enough pressure on the QB, you're not going to get INTS unless the QB makes a dumb mistake. Most INTS are caused by tips, a rushed QB.. When the team does seem to get pressure, they get sacks.

I don't believe in a secondary that can do it by itself in this league espeically nowadays.. its a combo of luck, pressure on the QB and mistakes by the QB.

Not only that, we have Brandon Carr who likes to play off and Mo who is a rookie that is too aggressive that he gets called on PI too much.
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Old 11-21-2012   #33
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Takeovers as Rob calls them is the only thing I can see helping out the putrid offense right now.

If we make the playoffs those are going to have to go up, because I can't see this team playing 6 straight clean games on offense!
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Old 11-21-2012   #34
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Originally Posted by Doomsday101 View Post
3rd in the NFL is giving up the fewest TD passes. No doubt would like to see more ints but let’s not act as if this secondary is some sieve. It is not by accident Dallas is ranked high in pass defense.
Well, part of the reason we're "ranked high in pass defense" is that the rankings specifically don't account for INTs. So they account for the things we do well and not for the things we don't, and surprise, we rank well.

If you look at systems that do try to account for everything, the numbers look different. Football Outsiders has us at 21st in pass defense. I'm not saying their numbers are perfect, but if you want a complete picture, you can't just ignore the lack of takeaways (or, for that matter, the penalties).
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Old 11-21-2012   #35
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this has been an organizational problem for more than a decade.

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Old 11-21-2012   #36
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I don't believe in a secondary that can do it by itself in this league espeically nowadays.. its a combo of luck, pressure on the QB and mistakes by the QB.
This is the part that is constantly ignored, defense is a team game. It takes dominate players at every level of your D to really make it a dominate unit that can all of a sudden cause turnovers and score points.

Teams do make their own luck though, I'm sure Chicago won't be giving any of those wins back cause their D is lucky. We could use upgrades along the front 7 and at safety before we can really say that we can cause our own luck.
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Old 11-21-2012   #37
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I really feel like I could play opposite Ware 800 snaps a season and stumble into a sack or four.

It's almost as if these guys are trying to not get to the quarterback.

Turnovers are a result of QBs being uncomfortable and being forced to do things they don't want to do. Outside of 94, no one is getting that done, whether they're playing against all pro tackles, third string practice squad bodies, JAGs, doesn't matter - Dallas' pass rush is going to get stoned no matter who they go up against. It's really uncanny.
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Old 11-21-2012   #38
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Well, part of the reason we're "ranked high in pass defense" is that the rankings specifically don't account for INTs. So they account for the things we do well and not for the things we don't, and surprise, we rank well.

If you look at systems that do try to account for everything, the numbers look different. Football Outsiders has us at 21st in pass defense. I'm not saying their numbers are perfect, but if you want a complete picture, you can't just ignore the lack of takeaways (or, for that matter, the penalties).
As I said I would like to see more ints by the defense but the secondary has not played poorly. As important as it is to get turnover the main job of any defense is to stop the other team from scoring and our defense has done that often with little help from an offense who has turned the ball over in our own territory or for instance 6. Ryan using the 3 man rush has not helped the secondary that much either.
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Old 11-21-2012   #39
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Originally Posted by Apollo Creed View Post
I really feel like I could play opposite Ware 800 snaps a season and stumble into a sack or four.

It's almost as if these guys are trying to not get to the quarterback.

Turnovers are a result of QBs being uncomfortable and being forced to do things they don't want to do. Outside of 94, no one is getting that done, whether they're playing against all pro tackles, third string practice squad bodies, JAGs, doesn't matter - Dallas' pass rush is going to get stoned no matter who they go up against. It's really uncanny.
Then maybe Ryan should lay off the 3 man rush when we have the opposing team in 3rd and long situations. You are pretty much giving the catch and making sure you make the tackle before a 1st down takes place.
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Old 11-21-2012   #40
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cam newton?



Newton was easier to type but it is Newman lol. Thanks
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Old 11-21-2012   #41
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Then maybe Ryan should lay off the 3 man rush when we have the opposing team in 3rd and long situations. You are pretty much giving the catch and making sure you make the tackle before a 1st down takes place.
I'm not going to say the 3 man rush is always bad, you should always look for variety in schemes, and always rushing the same 4 guys makes it look too much like a 4-3 and decreases the advantage of running a 3-4.

Perhaps Ryan has been using it too much lately, especially in the 4th quarter where he has a tendency to get real conservative (something Browns fans complained about also before he came here).
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Old 11-21-2012   #42
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I'm not going to say the 3 man rush is always bad, you should always look for variety in schemes, and always rushing the same 4 guys makes it look too much like a 4-3 and decreases the advantage of running a 3-4.

Perhaps Ryan has been using it too much lately, especially in the 4th quarter where he has a tendency to get real conservative (something Browns fans complained of also before he came here).
I see way too many plays we have given up using the 3 man rush. Sure if we are up 2 or 3 scores late in the game then rush 3 but I think Ryan does it way too often and it allows the QB to sit there and the WR to find a seam to work in. I expect to rush 4 guys and on occasions send 5 to 6 on the rush but 3 man just has not been very good to us.
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Old 11-21-2012   #43
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I see way too many plays we have given up using the 3 man rush. Sure if we are up 2 or 3 scores late in the game then rush 3 but I think Ryan does it way too often and it allows the QB to sit there and the WR to find a seam to work in. I expect to rush 4 guys and on occasions send 5 to 6 on the rush but 3 man just has not been very good to us.
Well dropping an extra guy in coverage can throw off a QB occasionally, but I agree Ryan does it a lil too much, especially late in games.
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Old 11-21-2012   #44
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I see way too many plays we have given up using the 3 man rush. Sure if we are up 2 or 3 scores late in the game then rush 3 but I think Ryan does it way too often and it allows the QB to sit there and the WR to find a seam to work in. I expect to rush 4 guys and on occasions send 5 to 6 on the rush but 3 man just has not been very good to us.
I agree. It doesnt matter how many guys you have in coverage when the Qb has pretty much ALL DAY to find someone open. Seriously, I think there are times when 10 seconds goes by before the QB throws it, and thats not because he is gonna get hit. Its because he has found an open man. It seems the other teams' o-lines would be able to keep those 3 guys away for minutes!!! - or forever!!
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Old 11-21-2012   #45
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Well dropping an extra guy in coverage can throw off a QB occasionally, but I agree Ryan does it a lil too much, especially late in games.
It can but Weeden was able to stand there, when Dallas rushed 4 guys he was having to get rid of the ball much quicker and not as effective. We did that vs NY were on a 3rd and 10 and ran 3 man rushes just to give up 12 yard passes and 1st downs. I like Ryan but hate the 3 man rush, it just does not rush especially now days since you can't touch a guy without getting flagged
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