Mo or 2 top rated offensive linemen?

[GusTheo]

You seem to forget that this team lost 5 games last year when leading in the 4th quarter. The secondary/defense WAS A FATAL FLAW. We lose more then a few games because of it. Fortunately that doesn't seem to be the case. Realistically you can't settle everything in one off season, it's just not possible. Teams like the Pats do an awesome job of having someone waiting in the wings, but most teams aren't like that.

[Zordon]

Originally Posted by GusTheo

You seem to forget that this team lost 5 games last year when leading in the 4th quarter. The secondary/defense WAS A FATAL FLAW. We lose more then a few games because of it. Fortunately that doesn't seem to be the case. Realistically you can't settle everything in one off season, it's just not possible. Teams like the Pats do an awesome job of having someone waiting in the wings, but most teams aren't like that.

Well that's why we got Carr. Carr and Jenkins would have made a formidable tandem IMO.

Also you can say that the oline prevented us from running out the clock in some of the games. With a surer oline maybe those games are out of reach already by the 4th quarter?

[dadymat]

Originally Posted by Zordon

Well that's why we got Carr. Carr and Jenkins would have made a formidable tandem IMO.

except that Jenk was coming off shoulder surgery and his future was unknown, and has injury problems

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by Zordon

Well that's why we got Carr. Carr and Jenkins would have made a formidable tandem IMO.

Also you can say that the oline prevented us from running out the clock in some of the games. With a surer oline maybe those games are out of reach already by the 4th quarter?

Well you nailed it there. It's much harder to close out a game when you have no ability whatsoever to create any push in the run game.

I literally can't remember the last time we had an offensive line that could do that.

[Jake0]

Not saying Mo was worth trading up for, but if we didn't have him and used the top 2 picks on OL here's the likely situation ---> Carr/Jenkins starting, Jenkins tears something, he's out constantly, Carr/Scandrick starting now and everyone whines about how we didn't spend a high enough pick on a corner.

[Reality]

Originally Posted by Zordon

Well that's why we got Carr. Carr and Jenkins would have made a formidable tandem IMO.

Also you can say that the oline prevented us from running out the clock in some of the games. With a surer oline maybe those games are out of reach already by the 4th quarter?

I like Jenkins. I think he's a solid corner. That said, the guy cannot stay on the field. When he's not missing games, he's leaving the game with a neck stinger, tweaked shoulder, etc.

Would I have been happy with Carr and Jenkins if we knew Jenkins could play 16 games? Absolutely, but players like Jenkins and Jones are just too easily removed from the field. For that reason, I believe the Claiborne pick was a good pick. As it stands, Jenkins has been a part-time player, meaning fewer snaps, and he has STILL missed a lot of game time including full games due to injury.

#reality

[MichaelWinicki]

Originally Posted by Reality

I like Jenkins. I think he's a solid corner. That said, the guy cannot stay on the field. When he's not missing games, he's leaving the game with a neck stinger, tweaked shoulder, etc.

Would I have been happy with Carr and Jenkins if we knew Jenkins could play 16 games? Absolutely, but players like Jenkins and Jones are just too easily removed from the field. For that reason, I believe the Claiborne pick was a good pick. As it stands, Jenkins has been a part-time player, meaning fewer snaps, and he has STILL missed a lot of game time including full games due to injury.

#reality

This.

Jenkins missed several games to start the season and now he's missing more of them.

To rely on Jenkins would have been a colossal error.

[respectdatstar]

Just a side note, but one of the biggest issues with this team is the lack of dicipline in clutch moments. We get called for so many bone-headed penalties that can sometimes take us completely out of games.

More on topic, I was pleased with the move up to get Claiborne. I think that Safety was/is a bigger need but would have been wasted as the only Safety that would have been worth taking in the 1st was Barron, who went one pick after we took Claiborne. I think this next draft we will be picking in a good spot to take Warmack or Barrett Jones. Either one of those guys will be a tremendous improvement to the O-Line. So, I am willing to wait and see what happens.

[dadymat]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

You said nobody knew about Costa. I knew he wouldn't be a good player for us this year. Injury or not. You said nobody could have foreseen Doug Free. I could and did. Nate Livings and Mackenzie Bernadeau? I saw it coming a mile away.

You're claiming this current state of the OL couldn't have been predicted. It was. I have. Others did too.

I have no issue at all going with Jenkins and Scandrick. I would have added a mid round CB more than likely and slept quite soundly. You're talking to the wrong guy. I worry about critical areas of the team and how we can get them fixed so quality cornerbacks like Jenkins, Newman and Scandrick don't all look like bums as they did in 2011.

[View Full Quote]I knew going in that the defense would be improved. That tends to happen when your new coordinator has an offseason to install and players are much more comfortable with it. Carr and Claiborne have done nothing to create that. You would have seen the same thing with the cornerbacks of 2011. In fact, the two that still remain on this team have played much better this year.

We need real impact players in the trenches.

so you just knew that Free, Costa, Livings and Bernadeu were gonna be injured and under performing with evidence showing different yet used the same brain to believe in Jenk,Scan and T new?.......
Jenkins is the only one who still can be considered a quality starter and he is alway injured....we had to move on from T New and Scandrick is a solid JAG.....if we had ran with Jenk and Scandrick we would be watching Scan and the likes of Agnew and Walker....that is recipe for disaster....

and everyone knows we need impact players in the trenches, your not in some exclusive club......thats why they spent a top 1st rounder on Smith, re signed Free (after he showed he deserved it) and Costa showed steady improvement at the last half of last season.....so YES, i stand by my position that it could not be predicted that 2 of those three would fail and the other be average....I belive they thought they could get by with a veteran rotation at guards to make it through the season and concentrate on a more dire need ....

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by dadymat

so you just knew that Free, Costa, Livings and Bernadeu were gonna be injured and under performing with evidence showing different yet used the same brain to believe in Jenk,Scan and T new?......

I knew that those offensive linemen couldn't play. Injured or not.

As for the corners, I knew that our cornerbacks were put in a position to fail. That's why the entire group looked awful last year. Randy Galloway said it. Darelle Revis wouldn't have played well in that defense last year. He's right.

[percyhoward]

Originally Posted by jterrell

The best teams in he NFL have good QBs, good WRs and solid defenses. IT is nice to have a good running game but that is largely just window dressing....

We've got a good QB, good WR's, and a solid defense, but we're 27th in red zone TD percentage. Why? Because we lost our #1 scoring threat at WR, and we can present no running threat in the red zone.

[dadymat]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

I knew that those offensive linemen couldn't play. Injured or not.

As for the corners, I knew that our cornerbacks were put in a position to fail. That's why the entire group looked awful last year. Randy Galloway said it. Darelle Revis wouldn't have played well in that defense last year. He's right.

well if Randy galloway said it...it must be true

[FiveRings]

No this is silly. We addressed our problem last year and did it damn well, now if Jerry goes out and makes a splash for a few o lineman and another problem shows up next year you'll be crying about that,

I'm no Jerry lover but aren't you guys ever happy?

[Chocolate Lab]

One thing about this debate... Seems like many people act like we had some master plan to spend a ton of resources on corners this year, but that's not true at all. We did plan to spend a lot on Carr and we did, yes. But getting Claiborne was a great deal that just happened to pop up. No one planned on trading up for a corner, it's just that the Rams offered us an amazing deal that was too good to pass up.

And everyone had Claiborne as the best player on the board. This wasn't some Quincy Carter or Tony Dixon type reach.

As discussed, without the trade the plan would have been to spend our first rounder on a DL. That's the "trenches"? Isn't it? And the second rounder on Wagner was going on the front seven, too.

So it's not like we plotted and schemed all offseason to get two expensive corners, or the best corner in the draft. It just happened that we got an offer too good to pass up.

Now if Claiborne turns out to not be a great player (and I have some of the concerns Eskimo has raised about his athleticism) then the move of drafting him will be fair game.

[arglebargle]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

I knew that those offensive linemen couldn't play. Injured or not.

As for the corners, I knew that our cornerbacks were put in a position to fail. That's why the entire group looked awful last year. Randy Galloway said it. Darelle Revis wouldn't have played well in that defense last year. He's right.

If only we'd signed Grubbs and drafted Decastro! That would solve our problems right now at...ooh.

And we'd be starting Scandrick and some guy at cb.