So jealous of Cleveland's offensive line

[burmafrd]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

Murray has rushed for 4.4 yds per carry...that's hardly bad and without the starting center for much of those carries.

Who cares why the Bengals/Panthers let go of Livings/Bern? Saints let Carl Nicks walk....what is that mean? Wasn't Kosier set free by the Lions who had an atrocious line at the time?
Livings has graded out well (PFF/Broaddus) regardless of what some posters believe. Bern has played much better as the season has gone on, but I have no problem seeing another guard drafted for competition sake. You cannot possibly give up on a 22 year-old tackle with All-Pro ability this early. Costa has about five games to prove he is worth keeping as a starter and it's my belief he will. Leaves us with Doug Free at RT, who I think is unmotivated and disinterested as the single most important position needing replacement this offseason.
[View Full Quote]You have Nagy coming back from injury, Killa, Arkin and Leary as competition. Draft or sign a OT and let Free walk. I think you'll see major improvements, barring injury of course. I really think this oline thing is overblown because a lot of posters still have there panties in a bunch over not drafting the All-World Decastro last offseason. No team can sustain this many injuries to a unit that is ruled by continuity and trust between players, especially one who had many changes to it last offseason.

sure Bernie was improving. Slowly from putrid to bad
Though he might be like Gurode and a much better Center then guard. We shall see; but he sucked at guard
Livings has been OK; but that is all
Free sucks basketballs through garden hoses
Smith is having a tougher time transitioning then I thought he would be he is gettting better.
By the way Nagy is gone, didn't you know?
Arkin was much better this year then last year; one more year to go.
Frankly the rest of them outside of Parnell are worthless

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

Murray has rushed for 4.4 yds per carry...that's hardly bad and without the starting center for much of those carries.

Who cares why the Bengals/Panthers let go of Livings/Bern? Saints let Carl Nicks walk....what is that mean? Wasn't Kosier set free by the Lions who had an atrocious line at the time?
Livings has graded out well (PFF/Broaddus) regardless of what some posters believe. Bern has played much better as the season has gone on, but I have no problem seeing another guard drafted for competition sake. You cannot possibly give up on a 22 year-old tackle with All-Pro ability this early. Costa has about five games to prove he is worth keeping as a starter and it's my belief he will. Leaves us with Doug Free at RT, who I think is unmotivated and disinterested as the single most important position needing replacement this offseason.
[View Full Quote]You have Nagy coming back from injury, Killa, Arkin and Leary as competition. Draft or sign a OT and let Free walk. I think you'll see major improvements, barring injury of course. I really think this oline thing is overblown because a lot of posters still have there panties in a bunch over not drafting the All-World Decastro last offseason. No team can sustain this many injuries to a unit that is ruled by continuity and trust between players, especially one who had many changes to it last offseason.

If Nagy comes back from injury it will be with the Detroit Lions, Arkin who despite the injuries they refuse to play and Leary who they supposedly had a 3rd grade on, could only make the practice squad oh! and by the way has a degenerative knee condition.

Yep the cavalry is coming to save us.

And continuity and trust is developed over years of playing and growing together and rarely by planting free agents into the mix.

By the way the Saints let Carl Nicks walk because they couldn’t afford him and Drew Brees, something that can’t be said for either Livings or Bernadeau.

[Oh_Canada]

Originally Posted by IrishAnto

If Nagy comes back from injury it will be with the Detroit Lions, Arkin who despite the injuries they refuse to play and Leary who they supposedly had a 3rd grade on, could only make the practice squad oh! and by the way has a degenerative knee condition.

Yep the cavalry is coming to save us.

And continuity and trust is developed over years of playing and growing together and rarely by planting free agents into the mix.

By the way the Saints let Carl Nicks walk because they couldn’t afford him and Drew Brees, something that can’t be said for either Livings or Bernadeau.

Forgot about Nagy-my bad.

Doesn't matter why they let Nicks walk, but I suspect if they thought that highly of him and the position he played, it would be Colston departing and not him.

Either way, I will wait to see this oline together for at least three more games before passing my inconsequential judgement on this unit. If they do not gel, we will concede that in fact the Cowboys need to follow the Browns path to perennial success by drafting lineman and rb's in the first rd year after year.

[Deep_Freeze]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

If they do not gel, we will concede that in fact the Cowboys need to follow the Browns path to perennial success by drafting lineman and rb's in the first rd year after year.

Well one thing the Browns, with all their high picks, have drafted consistently is on their lines (and RBs too). From Brown, Warren, Faine, Wimbley, Thomas, Mack, Taylor, and such, they have really made it a focal point for their franchise.

Too bad it has done nothing for them at all but cause them to never have had a superbowl ring in the superbowl era. If you want an emphasis on line play, the Browns shouldn't be the team to point to as an example.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by IrishAnto

This OL was never “Very Good” in any of the past 15 years.
Sure we had some quality players but the unit as a hole was made to look soo much better by the elusiveness and ability of one Tony Romo.

How good did Adams, Gurode, Davis etc. look with Bledsoe behind centre?

you are simply wrong. very, very wrong.

this ol has larry allen, flozell adams and gurode for plus OL careers.
they had a couple quality years from others in that group like columbo and bigg davis.

fans are just inherently not very smart and like to make things up to match their story as opposed to the reality.

The Cowboys ranked top 10 in OL (sacks allowed and yard per carry) for many of those 15 seasons.

In 2009 the Dallas Cowboys had the most experienced offensive line in football. That group was outstanding in run blocking but was rapidly aging.
We dropped from 5.0 ypc to 4.1 ypc in 2010. Then we replaced all the aging vets and once and were pretty bad last year. By pretty bad ... still around 20th best.

Our moronic fans have been lead to believe this is the worst OL ever assembled and has been for a decade. Neither of those things are remotely true.

Drew Bledsoe was 33 when he arrived and yet this team still was over .500 for the games he started. The team was 15th in points scored and 12th in passing yardage in his one full season as starter.

Dallas had the highest paid OL in the league for much of the 2000s.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by IrishAnto

Quite frankly with or without Demarco Murray this team hasn't run well this year so while I'm sure there would be improvement with him in the line-up I don't for one minute think you would call us good.

As for waiting on a decent sample size to judge this OL think about this.

Wouldn’t you think a bad team like Carolina would need all the good young talent it could get its hands on so why would they let Bernadeau go?

Again Cincinnati looks capable of making a playoff push so again would continuity on their OL be important but Livings was let go.

Dockery’s best days (however good they were) are long gone.

Costa, all of a sudden he’s the OL savoir?

And Free’s performance is up and down like the preverbal whore’s drawers.

And you say all we need to replace is Free?

demarco murray has averaged 68 ypg in his career.
trent richardson 67 ypg.


would be nice if you actually looked at stats before posting stuff that wasnt true.

if you need i can provide useful links.

[28 Joker]

I watched Denver's line open up lanes for three different running backs. McGahee injured his knee and had 7 carries. Denver still hung 133 rushing yards on San Diego and averaged 5.3 YPC. I would love to see Felix Jones run behind that line next year, and he just might get his chance. Denver has one of the best run blocking lines in the NFL. Peyton Manning is a coach on the field, too. He gets his team in the right play and run fit. Manning is a great leader, a true field general.

Dan Dierdorf said this about Dallas' offensive line:

"I know that DeMarco Murray is missing his 5th game but the reality is this offensive line of the Dallas Cowboys is hardly a juggernaut and it is not a really good run blocking group and especially...just Bernadeau moving over to center..there are..what do you expect... They've got 1 real (you know) above average player to me and that is their left tackle (Smith)".

I think Dan was stating that rather "nicely".

I'm still trying to figure out how the Cowboys lost to Baltimore when Jones and Murray combined for 185 rushing yards (32 rushes) and 1 TD. It should be noted that Phil Costa was outstanding in that game, and he was injured against the Panthers. Costa shouldn't stop the Cowboys from looking at centers in the draft, but they clearly have missed his run blocking this year. They have really missed Martellus Bennett's edge run blocking, too.

I think Tyron Smith (21 years old) has played good this year, and he is Dallas' best/most valuable player, imo. If I could pick one player off the Cowboys, I'm taking Smith. Period.

After Tyron, all those guys in the offensive line could be re-placed. However, good luck with that.

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by jterrell

demarco murray has averaged 68 ypg in his career.
trent richardson 67 ypg.


would be nice if you actually looked at stats before posting stuff that wasnt true.

if you need i can provide useful links.

Maybe while you’re providing that information, you'd like to add a comparison between the Dallas WRs, TE and QB compared to their Brown's counterparts.

I’ll think you’ll find Trent Richardson is pretty much the Brown’s offense.

BTW also tell me just how good Dallas is on getting a yard on the ground on 3rd and one or rushing touchdowns in the Red Zone while you’re at it?

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by jterrell

you are simply wrong. very, very wrong.

this ol has larry allen, flozell adams and gurode for plus OL careers.
they had a couple quality years from others in that group like columbo and bigg davis.

fans are just inherently not very smart and like to make things up to match their story as opposed to the reality.

The Cowboys ranked top 10 in OL (sacks allowed and yard per carry) for many of those 15 seasons.

In 2009 the Dallas Cowboys had the most experienced offensive line in football. That group was outstanding in run blocking but was rapidly aging.
We dropped from 5.0 ypc to 4.1 ypc in 2010. Then we replaced all the aging vets and once and were pretty bad last year. By pretty bad ... still around 20th best.

Our moronic fans have been lead to believe this is the worst OL ever assembled and has been for a decade. Neither of those things are remotely true.

[View Full Quote]Drew Bledsoe was 33 when he arrived and yet this team still was over .500 for the games he started. The team was 15th in points scored and 12th in passing yardage in his one full season as starter.

Dallas had the highest paid OL in the league for much of the 2000s.

Wow Drew Bledsoe was over .500 for the games he started.
Would that be .501?

The definition of mediocre if ever I saw it and a reflection of this franchise over the last 18 years.

That 2009 group was outstanding in run blocking !!!!

Quoting ypc doesn’t tell me just how these yards were gained.

Those boys couldn’t convert 3rd and 1 for love nor money and how many rushing touchdowns did we get?

All your quoted stats just point to a mediocre team and if that’s what you’re happy with the good luck to you.

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by Deep_Freeze

Well one thing the Browns, with all their high picks, have drafted consistently is on their lines (and RBs too). From Brown, Warren, Faine, Wimbley, Thomas, Mack, Taylor, and such, they have really made it a focal point for their franchise.

Too bad it has done nothing for them at all but cause them to never have had a superbowl ring in the superbowl era. If you want an emphasis on line play, the Browns shouldn't be the team to point to as an example.

Too bad Dallas's emphasis on WRs and DBs has done little for them over the last 18 years.

[Oh_Canada]

Originally Posted by IrishAnto

Too bad Dallas's emphasis on WRs and DBs has done little for them over the last 18 years.

Ok-well let's look at team's that have done something in the last eighteen years:

The NY Giants have drafted two olineman in the first three rounds of the last nine drafts-TWO.
WR's/CB's-TWELVE

The Patriots have drafted four in the first three rounds over the last nine drafts.
Wr's/CB's-NINE

The Steelers have drafted seven in the past nine years, three of which over the last two.
Wr's/CB's-ELEVEN

Dallas has drafted five olineman in the first three rounds over the last nine years.
Wr's/CB's-FOUR

So this myth that Dallas only pick wr's/cb's is just that a MYTH. What's also a myth is that the good teams pick olineman like they are apples off a tree and wait on corners and wr's. It's simply not true. If anything they need to draft MORE wr's/cb's.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

Ok-well let's look at team's that have done something in the last eighteen years:

The NY Giants have drafted two olineman in the first three rounds of the last nine drafts-TWO.
WR's/CB's-TWELVE

The Patriots have drafted four in the first three rounds over the last nine drafts.
Wr's/CB's-NINE

The Steelers have drafted seven in the past nine years, three of which over the last two.
Wr's/CB's-ELEVEN

Dallas has drafted five olineman in the first three rounds over the last nine years.
Wr's/CB's-FOUR

So this myth that Dallas only pick wr's/cb's is just that a MYTH. What's also a myth is that the good teams pick olineman like they are apples off a tree and wait on corners and wr's. It's simply not true. If anything they need to draft MORE wr's/cb's.

The problem with that is you can't look at what other teams do to fix this issue. Because we don't have their talent evaluators. We have our own and they've proven over the years they can not find OL later in the draft. Any decent OL drafted since Jerry has taken over the club was drafted in the first two rounds. Allen, Flozell, Gurode and Tyron.

So you can't say New England does it this way, so what's the problem? We aren't the Patriots. We're the Cowboys. We have to play the hand our lunatic owner deals us and our best shot at getting quality OL on this team is early in the draft.

[Oh_Canada]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

The problem with that is you can't look at what other teams do to fix this issue. Because we don't have their talent evaluators. We have our own and they've proven over the years they can not find OL later in the draft. Any decent OL drafted since Jerry has taken over the club was drafted in the first two rounds. Allen, Flozell, Gurode and Tyron.

So you can't say New England does it this way, so what's the problem? We aren't the Patriots. We're the Cowboys. We have to play the hand our lunatic owner deals us and our best shot at getting quality OL on this team is early in the draft.

I understand that, but people keep portaying a team that ignores oline and focuses on wr's and cb's. I've heard this countless times from people on the board. Personally, I would draft one lineman in the first two rounds of this draft and spend the rest of the picks shoring up the aging dline and find another pass rusher.
Just wanted to point out that it's not that the Cowboys have spent all there picks on wr's, is that they have completely missed on four of the five lineman they picked early. Probably out of bad luck more than anything, because they are pretty decent drafting every other position early on.

[Apollo Creed]

When you pick in the top 10 every year for a decade or so you're bound to stumble across some really good OL resources.

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

Ok-well let's look at team's that have done something in the last eighteen years:

The NY Giants have drafted two olineman in the first three rounds of the last nine drafts-TWO.
WR's/CB's-TWELVE

The Patriots have drafted four in the first three rounds over the last nine drafts.
Wr's/CB's-NINE

The Steelers have drafted seven in the past nine years, three of which over the last two.
Wr's/CB's-ELEVEN

Dallas has drafted five olineman in the first three rounds over the last nine years.
Wr's/CB's-FOUR

So this myth that Dallas only pick wr's/cb's is just that a MYTH. What's also a myth is that the good teams pick olineman like they are apples off a tree and wait on corners and wr's. It's simply not true. If anything they need to draft MORE wr's/cb's.

How convenient of you to stop at nine years instead of considering the full 18 years.

Shall we take a look?

Year Player Draft Pick(s)
2012 Mo Claiborne 1 & 2
2010 Dez Bryant 1 & 3
2009 Roy Williams 1 & 3
2008 Mike Jenkins 1
2003 Terence Newman 1
2002 Roy Williams 1
2001 Tony Dixon 2
2000 Dwayne Goodrich 2

And since the TE is part of the passing game why not have a look at them as well?

2008 Martellus Bennett 2
2006 Anthony Fasano 2
2003 Jason Witten 3
1997 David LaFleur 1
1995 Kendell Watkins 2


We did trade up for Mike Jenkins but I couldn't quickly find out what we gave up for him in addition to the 1st.

Yea we sure need to draft more WRs, TEs and DBs becaues we can't stop winning.