Those for JGarrett in 2013

[DenCWBY]

Thanks for all your thoughts pro JG people. It's certainly interesting to see what information was provided or lack thereof when all I ask for is some factual information to support a case of JG.
Yes a "stupid" thread indeed is basically one that cannot be answered by those called out to provide their own thoughts with supporting data. It's not a trick question or exactly rocket science fellas.
We'll the good news is there's a lot of good hostility built up so the panel in here will be lighting up this site come Sunday night.
My own thoughts on it:

• JG has gotten rid of poor talent like B James, Gurode and a few others that needed to go long before.
• He handles the press well and doesnt look or sound like a befumbling idiot in front of the microphone.(see WP Pressers)
• I think the team does try to play for him which is easliy supported by their 2nd half play as of late.
• For all intent, at least JG is now more open to making more effective 2nd half adjustments (but all for the wrong reasons).
• As brought up earlier churning the HC position does not guarantee anything as we have seen given our owner.

There's a few bones there for you to take as positives for JG however IMO there are still way too many negatives that outweigh this list in importance provided by the other side. I'll spare you a new thread asking for the negatives on JG since this was such a worthless thread.
Good night and thanks for playing.

[cml750]

Originally Posted by DenCWBY

[*]I think the team does try to play for him which is easliy supported by their 2nd half play as of late.

Unfortunately, I believe the reason they are doing better in the second half is because Garrett is somewhat out of the picture. They fall behind and Romo has to run the hurry up offense. When in hurry up, Garrett and his idiotic play calling are neutralized.

In all honestly, Garrett may make a decent head coach if that is all he does. He has been absolutely terrible wearing both the head coach and offensive coordinator hats at the same time. If he is retained next year, Jerry has to hire a real OC. Garrett needs to concentrate on motivating and disciplining the team.

[Undisputed]

Originally Posted by stasheroo

I think the big issue I have with Garrett - and many of his supporters - is that they see what they wish to see.

And that includes Jerry and Stephen Jones.

They see what might be with Jason Garrett, not what is.

They see what could potentially be a great story.

And intelligent, Ivy league-educated former 'Glory Days' player returns to lead the new to a revitalization and becomes the next Landry to lead the organization for a decade plus.

That's what they want to happen.

It's the picture they have in their minds and what they hope ultimately occurs.

But reality does not back this up and the hard facts paint a different picture.

They show a guy who looks like he's in over his head and is hovering around .500 for his head coaching tenure.

And an offensive coordinator whose offense is getting progressively worse, not better.

[View Full Quote]And a team that, in my opinion, does not show one area where it has improved.

I think the organization has to ask themselves what is more important, the careers of Ware, Witten, and Romo, or the hopes for Jason Garrett and his coaching career?

Best post in the thread. I've been saying this for ages. It seems like people have already written Jason Garrett's fairytale ending for him. It's absolutely incredible. I've never been a fan of JG. Nothing against the guy, but it's been clear to me that he has been learning on the job since he took the reins of our offense (which was already ranked top 5 under a combination of aged Bledsoe and Green Romo).

[CowboysFaninDC]

Originally Posted by DenCWBY

I totally see your point however look a SF, new coach brought in new staff, inherited crap and totally changed the environment overnight. Harbaugh with Ravens as well. A Reid did it when he came to Phili. Chucky at TB but he inherited a great D.

inhereited crap?

they have willis, bowman, smith, smith, brought in bunch of first round talent at CB. they have invested heavily in their OL with first and second round picks (3 first and 2 second over the past 6 years). had an all pro RB. top 10 WR, and TE and had one of the best rushing games in the league prior to harbaugh. their previous coach sucked, so lets call it what it was. lets not make up things to justify our view.

[CowboyGil]

Originally Posted by Hostile

Only because we don't follow the norm wherein disagreement means hatred.

By the way, when I am proven right about Jason Garrett, and I will be, I hope nothing will still change.

Hos, you are an island of reality in an ocean of you know what!!

[DenCWBY]

Originally Posted by CowboysFaninDC

inhereited crap?

they have willis, bowman, smith, smith, brought in bunch of first round talent at CB. they have invested heavily in their OL with first and second round picks (3 first and 2 second over the past 6 years). had an all pro RB. top 10 WR, and TE and had one of the best rushing games in the league prior to harbaugh. their previous coach sucked, so lets call it what it was. lets not make up things to justify our view.

Good point. Some apples and some oranges. Prev coach sucked so brought in a coach to recognize and create a workable environment and effective scheme that fit the talents of those players which obviously raised their level of play. More importantly restructured their setting to have team success. Some of those top picks were with the team for several years and played subpar of enough to get by. Why? Perhaps it was their scheme? Lack of motivation? Poor team environment? They just needed a kick in the pants? We're in the habit of losing?
Good coaches take good and/or bad talent and make them better or cut them lose. I see where JG cut some loose (BJames/Gurode) but he's not helping the talent we have get better. In fact many (Romo/Austin/Jones/T Smith) all offensive starters are worse. Do you think Harb would wait all year for Ogletree to come around with Harris on the bench or F Jones to get in shape? I think he would either create a system which Ogletree and Co could thive (see ASmith, Crab), or cut them loose. I envision Harb as a very intense, vocal leader that players do not want to dissapoint. I don't see that with the DC. Not to say that there are successful coaches that do not yell and scream but I think all succesful coaches carry a certain sence of leadership and respect which I do not see in JG.

[a_minimalist]

Originally Posted by CowboysFaninDC

inhereited crap?

they have willis, bowman, smith, smith, brought in bunch of first round talent at CB. they have invested heavily in their OL with first and second round picks (3 first and 2 second over the past 6 years). had an all pro RB. top 10 WR, and TE and had one of the best rushing games in the league prior to harbaugh. their previous coach sucked, so lets call it what it was. lets not make up things to justify our view.

Good luck trying to inject facts into any conversation about Garrett.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by CowboyGil

Hos, you are an island of reality in an ocean of you know what!!

Thanks. The waters are rising.

[stasheroo]

Originally Posted by Eskimo

anti-JG: So what improvement has there been?

pro-JG: lists five things

anti-JG: give me a break because
a. someone else deserves the credit for that such as the assistant coach or coordinators that he hand-picked
b. our won-loss record isn't better

So there is absolutely nothing that the anti-JG crowd will accept until point b is fixed so there is no point having this argument at all because your minds are already made up and you will skew any arguments to point b as proof that nothing is better even if it is.

This whole thread is stupid.

Let the season play out and you'll get your answer in the off-season as to whether Garrett is back.

What a joke!

Nice how you simply put 'lists five things' instead, of, ya know, actually listing any.

And 'option b' is the only option that actually matters.

But leave it to the 'great pretenders' to somehow try to marginalize actual wins and losses as a measure of success!

This proves my point clearly.

People see what they choose to see over reality.

They picture Garrett as a great coach when reality says he's the definition of mediocre.

[a_minimalist]

Originally Posted by stasheroo

People see what they choose to see over reality.

And let me guess. You don't, right?

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by DenCWBY

I have been a DC fan forever and in this site for a short period of time. Obviously the big rub in this house is the problems with our Boys. I think the majority understand that JJ is the ulitmate problem but it's like your mother in law. You can't shoot her so you have to deal with her in spite of your lovely wife.
The coach on the other hand is the hot issue that really seems to divide this house. You probably know I'm ready to move on from the JG expirement.
[View Full Quote]My questions is to those who think we should keep JG for next year or beyond. Please tell me why you think this way using logic and factual data to support your reasoning? I have tried to understand your side but I get a lot of generalities and heresy such as "I just have this feeling" or "I just think he's good for the team" or "he's better than what we had" or "he needs a chance". Before you answer, please consider he's been the DC OCoordinator going on 6 years, all teams have injuries and his W/L record to date.
Again, please provide statistical data or facts to support your thoughts or argument that indicate trends of success or improvement under his watch. Thanks

Ultimately, you answer your own question.

Whether any of us love or hate Garrett he si gonna be here if Jerry wants him.
Why a fan feels the way they do is the most useless point of reference ever.

We are fan, which y definition means we forgo reason and allow passion and emotion to override logic.

As to making logical arguments that can go two ways. I could construct a solid debate argument for or against Garrett.

He is young, well-educated and a football lifer. There are certainly coaches who have had Hall of Fame careers start far worse than his current .500 career record. None of the least would be the guy we all wanted him to be: Tom Landry.

All that said, my rebuttal argument would focus on his lack of offensive growth, penalties (especially on that side of the ball) and lack of clock mgmt skill.

When my next turn came as Garrett backer I'd argue clock mgmt like for the Saints just last night. Yes they are missing Payton but did have Drew Brees.

and on and on.

Good debates can be had but it is just a mental exercise.

Jerry's opinion is what really matters.

[stasheroo]

Originally Posted by a_minimalist

And let me guess. You don't, right?

I see 8-8 in 2011 and 5-6 in 2012.

Tangible evidence.

I see an offense ranked in the bottom half of the league (18th in points scored).

Tangible evidence.

A running game ranking dead last in the entire league.

More tangible evidence.

Not the wishful thinking of folks dreaming he's the next Tom Landry.

Unlike others, I can backup and substantiate my position.

The dreamers provide zero tangible evidence to support their hopes and dreams.

But have at it.

Maybe it's time for another smilie?

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by stasheroo

What a joke!

Nice how you simply put 'lists five things' instead, of, ya know, actually listing any.

And 'option b' is the only option that actually matters.

But leave it to the 'great pretenders' to somehow try to marginalize actual wins and losses as a measure of success!

This proves my point clearly.

People see what they choose to see over reality.

They picture Garrett as a great coach when reality says he's the definition of mediocre.

I would be perfectly fine if we fired Garrett today, this second.

All that said, I am more than willing to accept your challenge.

5 things:
1. Better drafting. Young guys with NFL talent and good attitudes are now prevalent.

2. No mutinies that we saw under Wade.

3. Better second half adjustments.

4. No arrests or off field nonsense aside from Dez Bryant's momma episode.

5. Division wins in NY and Philly on the road. Could win in Wash and sweep road series in division for first time in a very long time.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by stasheroo

I see 8-8 in 2011 and 5-6 in 2012.

Tangible evidence.

I see an offense ranked in the bottom half of the league (18th in points scored).

Tangible evidence.

A running game ranking dead last in the entire league.

More tangible evidence.

Not the wishful thinking of folks dreaming he's the next Tom Landry.

Unlike others, I can backup and substantiate my position.

The dreamers provide zero tangible evidence to support their hopes and dreams.

But have at it.

Maybe it's time for another smilie?

No one suggested there aren't arguments to be made against Garrett.
Only the small-minded believe everything is all 1 way. That is almost always incorrect and leads to a drought in overall thinking.

Challenging the status quo of what appears to be accepted as fact is the only way to really learn anything new once you reach maturity.

[stasheroo]

Originally Posted by jterrell

I would be perfectly fine if we fired Garrett today, this second.

All that said, I am more than willing to accept your challenge.

5 things:
1. Better drafting. Young guys with NFL talent and good attitudes are now prevalent. Leading to what? Where is the on-field improvement from this 'talent improvement'? Again, where are the results? Where is the tangible evidence?

2. No mutinies that we saw under Wade. Great. Campo never had any 'mutinies' either. Now we've dropped the bar this low?

3. Better second half adjustments. Over his failed first half game-planning? Is this actually considered a plus now?

4. No arrests or off field nonsense aside from Dez Bryant's momma episode. And the bar is lowered even further...

[View Full Quote]5. Division wins in NY and Philly on the road. Could win in Wash and sweep road series in division for first time in a very long time. I'll give you the Giants game, a huge win. One that actually had me believing early on. But ultimately a mirage. Philly? Who hasn't beaten a team that's quit?

Thanks for the reply. I put my responses in bold above.