A Case for Redball - Page 6 - Dallas Cowboys Forum

Apollo Creed · 12-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by visionary

once again back to jimmy, landry, parcells etc

please dont compare a guy who has accomplished nothing to coaches that have won SBs, in some cases, several

jimmy "RKGs" knew how to walk the walk, night and day from garrett

Jimmy coached at the sketchiest school in the country, had a team that had a 'white house' specifically for debauchery, and couldn't care less about what a guy did off the field as long as they were winning.

Talent>Character all day, everyday.

Remember him on his bio with Hoodie talking about how he can't coach a 'dumb' player - but listening to Jimmy Johnson talk about RKGs is the definition of irony.

visionary · 12-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Creed

Jimmy coached at the sketchiest school in the country, had a team that had a 'white house' specifically for debauchery, and couldn't care less about what a guy did off the field as long as they were winning.

Talent>Character all day, everyday.

Remember him on his bio with Hoodie talking about how he can't coach a 'dumb' player - but listening to Jimmy Johnson talk about RKGs is the definition of irony.

jimmy knew how to get players to play for him and for each other and to maximize their talent when the chips were down, those players did not run like garrett's team does

LatinMind · 12-04-2012

LOL Garrett is teaching fundamentals and smart? REALLY? LIke the thought of the OP but fundamentals and smarts should not be in the same thread that involves Garrett. This team is 2nd to last in penalties a game. Clearly he is not teaching fundamentals and smarts.

Gaede · 12-04-2012

You can write all you want that Garrett is changing the team, but when you actually sit down during a live game and watch this team struggle against the Eagles, Browns, Bucs (who at the time were awful), Panthers, and Redskins (4 out of 5 of these teams picked in the top 10 last year and likely 3 of them will again next year), I sincerely doubt you're sitting there cool and collected and confident that this team is made of the right stuff.

I find it funny that 'Garrett is taking us the right direction' threads typically pop up around mid-week. That is, only a few days after we are removed from the embarrassment of a team that played their usual lethargic, penalty-filled and mistake-prone brand of football (the Cowboy way!) are we hopeful again.

You can convince yourself of anything.

What we see from this football team is the exact opposite of what Garrett is supposed to have instilled

Chocolate Lab · 12-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Creed

There isn't a coach or organization in football (outside of Oakland) that doesn't go after the right kind of guy.

Everyone wants a hard worker, leader, yada yada.

That's just standard coach speak, no need to treat this like Garrett is revolutionizing the way teams are built and coaches look at players.

Right, this is it in a nutshell. Every coach in the country wants a team of players with great character and great talent. Unfortunately a team of Jason Wittens is impossible to field. So every coach has to choose where to make that balance. (And like you said, Jimmy had a team of anything but RKGs everywhere he was successful, especially here.)

And it cracks me up when the OP says things like, "I like what Garrett is trying to do." Trying? Every time I read that it reminds me of Hutch in Hard Knocks whining about how hard he was trying.

Every coach is trying to do the same thing -- maximize the talent potential of his team. Like everything else in life, some are just better than others at actually getting it done.

rickjameschinaclub · 12-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matts4313

Well - It would appear that many of you are trying to interchange "RKG" for "Talentless Choirboy".. That is not the case. Here are some direct quotes from Redball about RKGs.

But before you read it - take a second and think about this:

How many article, how much talk, was there from 2008-2010 about the lack of leadership? About the entitled persona coming from valley ranch? About how this team thought they could walk on to a field and the other guys would just lay down?

Do you still see those articles being written? Do you think there is a reason for that?

Garrett on RKG:
[View Full Quote]Jason Garrett said, after being asked about the Cowboys' draft philosophy that year, that the "most important thing is we talk about what it means to be a Dallas Cowboy, the kind of guys we want on our football team....they’re the Right Kind Of Guys." He later defined the term: in addition to being talented players, RKGs "love to play football and show you that they love it each and every day." Moreover, they play with "passion, enthusiasm, emotion."

Garrett went on to acknowledge several of the qualities that makes a player an RKG. One of them is leadership

....................................

eventually, there should be a tipping point, a moment where these hard-working, tough-minded youngsters who have grown up together, challenging each other in the weight room, on the practice field and in the huddle, will suddenly, collectively, be the better for it.

“We’re looking for the right kind of guy,” he said. “The right kind of guy, to us, is someone who loves to play football, who is very passionate about it, willing to work hard at it, willing to be part of a team, willing to be part of something that is maybe greater than himself.

“We want a guy who has an ego. Egos are important. But ego in the context of what we’re trying to accomplish as a team. Guys who are willing to work, are great teammates – there’s always going to be a place for those guys.”
Especially when we're talking about the bottom 30 players on a roster.

How much do you study? How important is winning? Where is football on your priority list? How hard do you play?

Give me a good player who gives supreme effort every snap over a supremely talented player who plays when he feels like it. We all know Albert Haynesworth is one of the most physically gifted players in the game, but don't be surprised if he spends this season at home.

Teams are tired of begging the defensive tackle to play.

Garrett is changing this team's soft mindset and the silly sense of entitlement that runs through it one player at a time.

Name me a single coach that doesn't want talented players that work hard... man, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

rickjameschinaclub · 12-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgcowboy

The last two years almost EVERY body in Washington DC metro area was blasting Shannahan and his son..I think there was no adjective left in the books or off the books that weren't used to describe them...

The calls for them to be fired were off the chart.....

Listen to DC fans, media, etc etc....They are geniuses and talked about like Gods and saints now and you almost throw up hearing the praise they get from the same people who wanted them out of town...

The point is...when an organization sinks deep into mediocrity for years and years it cannot be fixed in 1, 2, or sometimes 3 years...it needs a PROCESS to fix it and I believe JG is doing just that...The people fixing it might look dump, stupid, idiots, and whatever you wanna call them but given time things will be straighten up nicely.....the key word is PATIENCE...

[View Full Quote]

The difference is, Shanahan already won Superbowls.. The difference is, they were waiting for a LEGIT quarterback, which as soon as they got, they've essentially turned the franchise around in one year, totally tailoring the offense according to RG3's skill set... We already have a legit quarterback.. JG hasn't tailored anything around the skill-set of Tony Romo and is totally clueless..

The case of the Shanny's actually proves the exact opposite of what your trying to use it for...

rickjameschinaclub · 12-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by CATCH17

The only difference i've seen between he and Wade is he gets the guys to play harder.

In all honesty, before the team quit on Wade, he had them playing at a higher level than Jason ever has.

I don't even think they quite on Wade... I think some of them thought the wrong guy got fired and they essentially quit on the season, nothing against quitting on Wade the coach. There were already grumblings in the lockerroom about how JG was sucking as a coach, but those guys those days were labeled 'cancers'. Cue in Dan Reeves being brought it to work on the 'running game'...

mgcowboy · 12-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aven8

Give me a break. Shanny has skins, but didn't have a QB. It's amazing how genius a coach looks when he has one of those.

JG has had Romo his whole career and has done squat. Only way he stays IMO is if we make the playoffs. If we do make the playoffs he still must hire Chryst, or somebody to be the OC.

JG had a QB?

Romo?

That's your opinion to consider having Romo (undrafted small school QB) as to having a 2nd overall draft, heismann-winning, once-in-a-decade-talent QB like RG3...

Romo, admittedly good not great QB, is in no way at the same level as RG3 or Luck.... Yes he is my Cowboys QB and I root for him big time but let's not get over board....

Not that you, and other Romo-apologist Garrett-hater, will change your minds but putting it out there for the record...

rickjameschinaclub · 12-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgcowboy

JG had a QB?

Romo?

That's your opinion to consider having Romo (undrafted small school QB) as to having a 2nd overall draft, heismann-winning, once-in-a-decade-talent QB like RG3...

Romo, admittedly good not great QB, is in no way at the same level as RG3 or Luck.... Yes he is my Cowboys QB and I root for him big time but let's not get over board....

Not that you, and other Romo-apologist Garrett-hater, will change your minds but putting it out there for the record...

Let us assume Romo is a good QB and not a great one.. Can anybody in their right mind argue that the Shanny's haven't totally re-designed their offense based upon the skill-set of RG3, in his very first year? What has JG done in respect to the unique skill-set of Romo?

BTW, that very Shanahan was the one guy who was threatening the Cowboys in pursuit of Romo, i.e. if it weren't for Payton, Shanny would have gotten Romo on his team and Romo would probably be on his march to the HoF...

Prossman · 12-04-2012

JG needs to scrap his Golden Playbook and bring in a OC to run his own offense. Romo needs a more westcoast style offense, but dont kid yourself , the cowboys are not keeping Tony from the hall of fame, Tony is. having said that the Golden offense isnt doing tony or anyone else any favors. having Garrett focus on HCing responsiblities will let us know if can actually do it. Right now he is failing miserably on everything but the environment of the team. Odds are we are looking at another 8-8 frustraiting season if MAJOR changes dont happen at out HC position.

Blitzen32 · 12-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocolate Lab

Right, this is it in a nutshell. Every coach in the country wants a team of players with great character and great talent. Unfortunately a team of Jason Wittens is impossible to field. So every coach has to choose where to make that balance. (And like you said, Jimmy had a team of anything but RKGs everywhere he was successful, especially here.)

And it cracks me up when the OP says things like, "I like what Garrett is trying to do." Trying? Every time I read that it reminds me of Hutch in Hard Knocks whining about how hard he was trying.

Every coach is trying to do the same thing -- maximize the talent potential of his team. Like everything else in life, some are just better than others at actually getting it done.

Jimmy disciplined players and got rid of the bad apples along the way.

We've tried to make it work with "talented" guys like TO, Pacman, Tank Johnson and even Crayton. Spoiler alert: it doesn't.

Guys like that divide the locker room and ruin teams like a bad staph infection.

I'm confident that Garrett knows more about each player's talent and liability than what we as fans think from afar.

Eskimo · 12-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idgit

Yeah. Definitely. That's something that gets misunderstood a lot with the RKG stuff. Bryant's personality presents some challenges, but you need guys with his temperament, too. It's not having 53 team captains. You can have rough personalities; they need to be committed to subordinating for the team and leaving it all out on the field, every play.

Bryant is not a bad kid. He works hard, plays hard, tries to help his teammates and badly wants to win. He doesn't seem selfish like TO was. I do think he is immature and he probably has some learning issues that the team is trying to help him through. The thing that comes through is he has great passion for the game and that is probably the most important element of RKGs. They play football because they love the game, not because they are physically talented and it is a way to may a lot of money. If you go back and look at the triplets (Aikman, Irvin, Emmitt) they all had a passion for the game and a strong desire to win.

Let's take a look at two former troubled but talented Cowboys - Deion and Irvin. Irvin is a RKG despite his drug problem. We could work around that because of his love of the game and love of winning.

OTOH, Deion was not a RKG. Great talent, but narcissistic and selfish. He would take dumb risks and make "business decisions" on the field.

I don't know that RKG is what Garrett envisions for the Cowboys' identity. He wants this to be the predominant culture of the team. So long as the vast majority of the team are RKGs they can often keep a handful of others in-line from peer pressure and culture. I actually think he wants an aggressive offense with a physical running game, OL that can get out in space and attack at the second level and a precise aerial attack that utilizes multiple formations. On defense, he visualizes a team that plays aggressive coverage and blitzes moderately with a focus on limiting big plays. They seem to place a high emphasis on LBs and CBs over DL and Safeties but maybe that is just the talent that has been available to them thus far. I do strongly believe that there hasn't been enough time to transform the roster to his liking yet because of the cap situation and the lack of a core nucleus of players at their peaks to carry us. Instead we rely on the old guard, young pups and a few scrap heap vets that we manage to find to fill in gaps.

Eskimo · 12-04-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocolate Lab

You don't think that has anything with the way he was utilized here?

I agree that Bennett could have been utilized more but he often seemed to screw up when he was given a chance by Romo. We actually threw to him quite a bit in his rookie season but then he really started to mess up quite a bit and Romo decided not to throw to him anymore except as an outlet when everyone else was covered downfield and the odd screen.

The other reason that he wasn't featured much is that Romo has never been one to throw high passes for his receivers to jump an grab. That finesse type of throw just has never been part of his arsenal and he has struggled with those corner lobs in the end zone for years. Eli is particularly good at those and catching a few of them gave him some confidence to use him more.

As others have pointed out, Witten just hasn't missed any games. Bennett was always playing behind Witten and was never going to be the main target for us at TE. He always was a great in-line blocker and he was a weapon for us on outside runs.

I do know that he is a player that we wanted back but the Giants offered him a chance to start and he took the opportunity by the horns and has done well with it.

The biggest problem in the whole affair is that we spent a second round pick on a backup to an All-Pro player in his prime. He was not going to see the field much as a receiving option and if we had wanted a blocking TE who could catch dumpoffs we could have gotten one in the 6th round. This was just a dumb pick and the GM was not using resources wisely here. We could have really used an OL in that draft but instead used a 1st and 2nd round pick on backup players.

CATCH17 · 12-04-2012

I think they got rid of TO because he wasn't a fan of the way Garrett ran the offense.