Costa to IR; OT Darrion Weems signed

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

So the trouble is the Free agents?? Free, Arkin, Smith, Rogers, Peterman, Marten, Brewster, Sam Young, Nagy all drafted by the Cowboys over the last seven years. Smith has been ok and Free is the worst player of all the starters. The rest are either non-starters, playing for another team or out of the league.

No the problem is the Cowboys ability to evaluate OL talent not picked in the 1st or 2nd round (Rogers being the exception, apparently Parcells was warned not to draft him but he ignored the advice).

[Idgit]

Originally Posted by IrishAnto

No the problem is the Cowboys ability to evaluate OL talent not picked in the 1st or 2nd round (Rogers being the exception, apparently Parcells was warned not to draft him but he ignored the advice).

A lot of teams do ok finding and developing middle-round players. It's a mistake to spend premium picks on positions if you don't have to.

The line would look a lot different if our OT play were better. We're also weak at C, but it's possible that's related to our injured starter. Either way, we can't roll the dice there another season.

You do wonder how different the team might look if we didn't spend a recent first round pick and a recent 2nd on a RB and backup TE. Not to mention the RW trade. Parlay those picks in hindsight into some OL/DL depth and another starting S or speedy WR and the roster would look pretty good right now.

[stasheroo]

Originally Posted by Idgit

A lot of teams do ok finding and developing middle-round players. It's a mistake to spend premium picks on positions if you don't have to.

The line would look a lot different if our OT play were better. We're also weak at C, but it's possible that's related to our injured starter. Either way, we can't roll the dice there another season.

You do wonder how different the team might look if we didn't spend a recent first round pick and a recent 2nd on a RB and backup TE. Not to mention the RW trade. Parlay those picks in hindsight into some OL/DL depth and another starting S or speedy WR and the roster would look pretty good right now.

You speak the truth here.

To say nothing of choosing a complete back like Ray Rice over the 'complimentary back' some people swore was a great idea.

There was also that span of 3-4 years where we already had a Pro Bowl TE in Witten and 1 2nd round pick was used, not once, but twice on a second banana TE. The two TE offense has never bore fruit for the Cowboys.

I truly hope that the lack of investment in the trenches - and the ramifications of that inaction - has finally occurred to the people making the decisions.

[Idgit]

Originally Posted by stasheroo

You speak the truth here.

To say nothing of choosing a complete back like Ray Rice over the 'complimentary back' some people swore was a great idea.

There was also that span of 3-4 years where we already had a Pro Bowl TE in Witten and 1 2nd round pick was used, not once, but twice on a second banana TE. The two TE offense has never bore fruit for the Cowboys.

I truly hope that the lack of investment in the trenches - and the ramifications of that inaction - has finally occurred to the people making the decisions.

It's like anything. Slow and steady usually wins. You can get good RBs in the 2-4th rounds, and you need more than one RB, anyway. Draft them there. You need OTs early. Interior OLs you can get away with taking lower and building them up. DL you need to take skill players early.

If we just didn't swing for the fences, we'd have been ok. Maybe you take a chance here and there overdrafting at a position if you have an obvious hole you couldn't fill in FA or if you think a player of rare ability has fallen and you want to make a move (eg, if you really want to run more two TE sets and a guy you love fell into the third round like Witten did, go for it). But, generally speaking, you gotta take skilled players where they represent value in the draft, hire coaches and trainers who can develop them, and just play the odds.

I actually liked RW11 a lot as a player, but we overpaid. Hated the Bennett pick, and I didn't love the Felix pick (IIRC) but only because it was a RB in the 1st. It's all hindsight, but pretty useful in looking back and seeing where teams go wrong. Note, though, I'd feel the same about a first-round C or OG, too. Much rather spend that pick on a DL, RT, or OLB or even a QB and hope we can fix the interior line in UFA.

[stasheroo]

Originally Posted by Idgit

It's like anything. Slow and steady usually wins. You can get good RBs in the 2-4th rounds, and you need more than one RB, anyway. Draft them there. You need OTs early. Interior OLs you can get away with taking lower and building them up. DL you need to take skill players early.

I can see the case to be made for waiting on the interior offensive line, I really can. But for this team, and considering their struggles in identifying and acquiring them, I'm more than willing to 'overpay' if you can get a sure-thing there.

I'd gladly give up a first round pick for a center I can plug in for a decade.

If we just didn't swing for the fences, we'd have been ok. Maybe you take a chance here and there overdrafting at a position if you have an obvious hole you couldn't fill in FA or if you think a player of rare ability has fallen and you want to make a move (eg, if you really want to run more two TE sets and a guy you love fell into the third round like Witten did, go for it). But, generally speaking, you gotta take skilled players where they represent value in the draft, hire coaches and trainers who can develop them, and just play the odds.

I attribute it to 'shiny object syndrome'. (Or SOS, given the results!)

Too often, this orgnaization goes for the 'flash', or the 'skill position' player, ignoring glaring needs at less glamorous spots.

"WR? Sure, spend away! Money and draft picks all around!"

"Cornerback? Can never have enough or spend enough there, eh?"

"Running back? Sure, let's spend big and draft big, after all, it's a running back league, right?"

"Guard? Center? Defensive line?"

"Nah. Those guys are a dime a dozen and don't show up on highlight film anyhow, we can get them anywhere."

I actually liked RW11 a lot as a player, but we overpaid.

I won't lie, I loved that deal, until we got him. And then he just seemed like a 'sad sack' who did what the job required but didn't seem to care much more than that. Ultimately, one of the worst trades in team history.

Hated the Bennett pick, and I didn't love the Felix pick (IIRC) but only because it was a RB in the 1st.

Hated the Bennett pick too (and Fasano!). Folks tried to justify it touting the twp TE offense, but the results have never come close to a sufficient return on investment.

I was on record that year as wanting Ray Rice, but again folks screamed about how Felix was the perfect 'compliment' to Barber. How you justify a 1st rounder on a 'compliment' still doesn't make sense to me.

It's all hindsight, but pretty useful in looking back and seeing where teams go wrong. Note, though, I'd feel the same about a first-round C or OG, too. Much rather spend that pick on a DL, RT, or OLB or even a QB and hope we can fix the interior line in UFA.

I enjoy talking about it rather than sweeping things under the rug or shrugging my shoulders. When I'm wrong, I admit it, why shouldn't I hold others to the same?

Not me. As I stated above, I'd 'overpay' to make sure I 'get it right'. This team truly needs to 'get it right'.

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by stasheroo

I can see the case to be made for waiting on the interior offensive line, I really can. But for this team, and considering their struggles in identifying and acquiring them, I'm more than willing to 'overpay' if you can get a sure-thing there.

I'd gladly give up a first round pick for a center I can plug in for a decade.



I attribute it to 'shiny object syndrome'. (Or SOS, given the results!)

Too often, this orgnaization goes for the 'flash', or the 'skill position' player, ignoring glaring needs at less glamorous spots.

"WR? Sure, spend away! Money and draft picks all around!"

"Cornerback? Can never have enough or spend enough there, eh?"

"Running back? Sure, let's spend big and draft big, after all, it's a running back league, right?"

"Guard? Center? Defensive line?"

[View Full Quote]"Nah. Those guys are a dime a dozen and don't show up on highlight film anyhow, we can get them anywhere."



I won't lie, I loved that deal, until we got him. And then he just seemed like a 'sad sack' who did what the job required but didn't seem to care much more than that. Ultimately, one of the worst trades in team history.



Hated the Bennett pick too (and Fasano!). Folks tried to justify it touting the twp TE offense, but the results have never come close to a sufficient return on investment.

I was on record that year as wanting Ray Rice, but again folks screamed about how Felix was the perfect 'compliment' to Barber. How you justify a 1st rounder on a 'compliment' still doesn't make sense to me.



I enjoy talking about it rather than sweeping things under the rug or shrugging my shoulders. When I'm wrong, I admit it, why shouldn't I hold others to the same?

Not me. As I stated above, I'd 'overpay' to make sure I 'get it right'. This team truly needs to 'get it right'.

I couldn’t say it better myself.

[Eskimo]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

Frankly I would have rather had a guard we KNOW is good like Holland.

Jerry has way too much ego to admit a mistake there especially with only four games left in the season and the playoffs a longshot.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by stasheroo

I attribute it to 'shiny object syndrome'. (Or SOS, given the results!)

Too often, this orgnaization goes for the 'flash', or the 'skill position' player, ignoring glaring needs at less glamorous spots.

"WR? Sure, spend away! Money and draft picks all around!"

"Cornerback? Can never have enough or spend enough there, eh?"

"Running back? Sure, let's spend big and draft big, after all, it's a running back league, right?"

"Guard? Center? Defensive line?"

"Nah. Those guys are a dime a dozen and don't show up on highlight film anyhow, we can get them anywhere."

You can trace that right back to the owner. He's all show, no substance. The new stadium reflects that too.

[Oh_Canada]

Originally Posted by stasheroo

I can see the case to be made for waiting on the interior offensive line, I really can. But for this team, and considering their struggles in identifying and acquiring them, I'm more than willing to 'overpay' if you can get a sure-thing there.

I'd gladly give up a first round pick for a center I can plug in for a decade.



I attribute it to 'shiny object syndrome'. (Or SOS, given the results!)

Too often, this orgnaization goes for the 'flash', or the 'skill position' player, ignoring glaring needs at less glamorous spots.

"WR? Sure, spend away! Money and draft picks all around!"

"Cornerback? Can never have enough or spend enough there, eh?"

"Running back? Sure, let's spend big and draft big, after all, it's a running back league, right?"

"Guard? Center? Defensive line?"

[View Full Quote]"Nah. Those guys are a dime a dozen and don't show up on highlight film anyhow, we can get them anywhere."

While I like the idea of drafting someone like Barrett Jones because of his versatility, it is my opinion that the pass rush remains the most important aspect of any winning football team and should be the focal point of the upcoming draft.

Just look at the Super Bowl winning teams (with the Saints being the only exception) of the last decade and the most common trait other than very good QB play was the pass rush: Bucs, Steelers, Giants, and Packers had ferocious pass rushes, Colts and even the Pats with Seymour, Vrabel, McGinest were very good at getting to the opposing QB.

The Texans most recently have figured out this formula-last four drafts picking up JJ Watt, Brooks Reed, Connor Barwin, Whitney Mercilus all in the first couple of rounds. By contrast, they drafted one offensive tackle in the first round, the rest of the starting olineman drafted in the seventh rd, third rd, sixth rd, third rd. Furthemore one of their starting lineman is a free agent and the other aquired via trade.

We can all agree drafting big uglies should be priority, but I don't think committing more than one high pick on the oline is the right call unless they find a way to pick up additional picks. If I were drafting, the main objective would be at least one pass rusher/dlineman in the first three rounds of every single draft.

[burmafrd]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

While I like the idea of drafting someone like Barrett Jones because of his versatility, it is my opinion that the pass rush remains the most important aspect of any winning football team and should be the focal point of the upcoming draft.

Just look at the Super Bowl winning teams (with the Saints being the only exception) of the last decade and the most common trait other than very good QB play was the pass rush: Bucs, Steelers, Giants, and Packers had ferocious pass rushes, Colts and even the Pats with Seymour, Vrabel, McGinest were very good at getting to the opposing QB.

[View Full Quote]The Texans most recently have figured out this formula-last four drafts picking up JJ Watt, Brooks Reed, Connor Barwin, Whitney Mercilus all in the first couple of rounds. By contrast, they drafted one offensive tackle in the first round, the rest of the starting olineman drafted in the seventh rd, third rd, sixth rd, third rd. Furthemore one of their starting lineman is a free agent and the other aquired via trade.

We can all agree drafting big uglies should be priority, but I don't think committing more than one high pick on the oline is the right call unless they find a way to pick up additional picks. If I were drafting, the main objective would be at least one pass rusher/dlineman in the first three rounds of every single draft.

our problem is that we have shown NO ability to draft O linemen later and develope them.

The only starter we developed was Free and look what we have now.

This has to be the only team in the NFL that is unable to take later draft pickson the O Line and not develope them. Unbeliebable how bad we have been there compared to EVERYONE else.

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

While I like the idea of drafting someone like Barrett Jones because of his versatility, it is my opinion that the pass rush remains the most important aspect of any winning football team and should be the focal point of the upcoming draft.

Just look at the Super Bowl winning teams (with the Saints being the only exception) of the last decade and the most common trait other than very good QB play was the pass rush: Bucs, Steelers, Giants, and Packers had ferocious pass rushes, Colts and even the Pats with Seymour, Vrabel, McGinest were very good at getting to the opposing QB.

[View Full Quote]The Texans most recently have figured out this formula-last four drafts picking up JJ Watt, Brooks Reed, Connor Barwin, Whitney Mercilus all in the first couple of rounds. By contrast, they drafted one offensive tackle in the first round, the rest of the starting olineman drafted in the seventh rd, third rd, sixth rd, third rd. Furthemore one of their starting lineman is a free agent and the other aquired via trade.

We can all agree drafting big uglies should be priority, but I don't think committing more than one high pick on the oline is the right call unless they find a way to pick up additional picks. If I were drafting, the main objective would be at least one pass rusher/dlineman in the first three rounds of every single draft.

I agree that spending high picks on the DL and OL should be done with a lot more regularity, however saying before the draft your going to limit yourself to “one” of anything is foolish.

You have to see how it plays out and if the value is there on one side of the ball then you have to take advantage of that.

And let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. The Texans haven’t won any Super Bowls yet.

[Oh_Canada]

Originally Posted by IrishAnto

I agree that spending high picks on the DL and OL should be done with a lot more regularity, however saying before the draft your going to limit yourself to “one” of anything is foolish.

You have to see how it plays out and if the value is there on one side of the ball then you have to take advantage of that.

And let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. The Texans haven’t won any Super Bowls yet.

There isn't one draft where you cannot find a dlineman or olb in the first three rounds. You simply need to be committed to doing so.

The Texans haven't won anything, but 11-1 is impressive nonetheless and they are missing their star middle linebacker and a few corners.

[Oh_Canada]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

our problem is that we have shown NO ability to draft O linemen later and develope them.

The only starter we developed was Free and look what we have now.

This has to be the only team in the NFL that is unable to take later draft pickson the O Line and not develope them. Unbeliebable how bad we have been there compared to EVERYONE else.

This is where we agree. I have no idea why the Cowboys seem to be vexed at picking lineman....had even one of there most recent picks panned out beyond Smith (and even he has been mediocre this year) this would be an entirely different oline.

I like the idea of drafting Barrett Jones, he is smart, tough, and most importantly extremely versatile. If they can land him and at least ONE pass rusher (Dline or OLB) in the first two rounds I would be pleased.

[stasheroo]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

This is where we agree. I have no idea why the Cowboys seem to be vexed at picking lineman....had even one of there most recent picks panned out beyond Smith (and even he has been mediocre this year) this would be an entirely different oline.

I like the idea of drafting Barrett Jones, he is smart, tough, and most importantly extremely versatile. If they can land him and at least ONE pass rusher (Dline or OLB) in the first two rounds I would be pleased.

Agreed.

More than pleased for me!

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

There isn't one draft where you cannot find a dlineman or olb in the first three rounds. You simply need to be committed to doing so.

The Texans haven't won anything, but 11-1 is impressive nonetheless and they are missing their star middle linebacker and a few corners.

I was referring to your statement that you wouldn’t commit more than one high pick to drafting OL and my reply was that if the value was there for more than one then you take advantage of that, not that you can’t find a DL or OL worthy of the pick.

I agree they are impressive but lets see if their “Formula” brings them the Super Bowl or not.