RG3 suffers knee injury late in game

[SkinsHokieFan]

Originally Posted by AmericasTeam31

I believe what you are missing here is that his point was that Luck has been asked to do more..

Is Luck being asked to do more OR is he forcing the issue, Rex Grossman style? Nobody is able to prove at all that Andrew Luck is "being asked to do more" since nobody on this board knows what him and Arians are talking about nor are they at Colts or Redskins practice during the week.

Again, Tom Brady rarely throws deep. He is content to use the spread "college" passing offense to pick up quick 7-10 yard gains all the way up the field.

Andrew Luck came from an offense at Stanford where he had WIDE OPEN TE's streaking down the field because of the dominant run game he was afforded. We shouldn't be surprised he is forcing things deep like Grossman would because in college he had nothing but wide open guys deep off play action fakes.

Without the run game that he had at Stanford DBs aren't cheating up and he doesn't have the wide open deep passes he was used to with Jim Harbaugh.

This game makes me sick below because I was at the Orange Bowl but you'll notice in the first half he struggles badly (look at 1:46 IN where he makes a horrible decision to try and throw the ball while being taken down in the endzone and at 2:46 where he throws it straight to a wide open Jayron Hosley and again at 3:35 which was the turning point in the game, Hosley dropping what would have been a pick 6) but in the 2nd half, when the Stanford run game starts dominating and Virginia Tech is cheating up its safeties (in that 2nd half our safeties were 7 yards off the LOS) Luck throws wide open TD's.

Luck leading the NFL in interceptions is no surprise to me now and shows that RG3 is simply making far better decisions and is at this point a far superior passer and will continue to develop that way

Here is the clip I have mentioned

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq3Ol2jtGnk

[Sonny#9]

Originally Posted by Bluestang

And all it took was a little throught process on your part to figure it out.

Good job, and for the Redskin fans...keep making your comparisons to Rex Grossman when you can't think outside of the box.

Or keep comparing Griffin to athletic black QBs that could never pass. Has Vince Young, Cam Newton (who is playing very well right now), or Mike Vick ever been as accurate or as efficient as Griffin has so far this year?

[SkinsHokieFan]

Originally Posted by Sonny#9

Or keep comparing Griffin to athletic black QBs that could never pass. Has Vince Young, Cam Newton (who is playing very well right now), or Mike Vick ever been as accurate or as efficient as Griffin has so far this year?

My favorite one was Akili Smith 2.0

[Sonny#9]

Originally Posted by SkinsHokieFan

My favorite one was Akili Smith 2.0

That was good, but the one that said Griffin was the "same size as Vick"

[SkinsHokieFan]

Originally Posted by Sonny#9

That was good, but the one that said Griffin was the "same size as Vick"

That is laughable also.

I stood next to Michael Vick back in college. He was an inch shorter then I am.

I saw Griff at draft day. Much bigger then I am.

Vick was a very thick well built athlete but had a 5'11 frame at best. Grff is every inch of 6'2

[1fisher]

This thread is cracking me up!

[AmericasTeam31]

Originally Posted by SkinsHokieFan

Again, Tom Brady rarely throws deep. He is content to use the spread "college" passing offense to pick up quick 7-10 yard gains all the way up the field.

Except Brady throws 38 short passes per game... Not 27.... Oh, and he throws for about 35 TD's per year too... Horrible comparison....

Originally Posted by SkinsHokieFan

Andrew Luck came from an offense at Stanford where he had WIDE OPEN TE's streaking down the field because of the dominant run game he was afforded. We shouldn't be surprised he is forcing things deep like Grossman would because in college he had nothing but wide open guys deep off play action fakes.

Without the run game that he had at Stanford DBs aren't cheating up and he doesn't have the wide open deep passes he was used to with Jim Harbaugh.

Hmm... sounds strangely like an observation that was made on this board about RG. #1 rushing offense, wide open receivers and TE's everywhere, because of the dominant running game he was afforded and play action fakes.... Pretty much exactly what I said, and I also stated that I'm interested to see what happens when the safeties and LB's aren't pulled out of position by the running threat. So thanks for adding even more validity to that for me.

As for "reading and understanding the defense" I honestly haven't seen much of that. Granted, full disclosure, I haven't watched every snap, but it seems to me that there are a lot of one read pass plays in the offense.

What's with all the Grossman comparisons? No one here compares any player to Grossman except Skins fans.... Do we run around comparing every quarterback to Kitna or Quincy? He was your QB, he sucked, move on...

[NIBGoldenchild]

Originally Posted by AmericasTeam31

As for "reading and understanding the defense" I honestly haven't seen much of that. Granted, full disclosure, I haven't watched every snap, but it seems to me that there are a lot of one read pass plays in the offense. ..

Aside from a screen play, there are no one read plays in the offense. You have no clue what you're talking about. Every pass play has a minimum of two passing options and often, three. But for those who somehow can't seem to count 3 WRs lined up and running routes on the field, the high percentage of the first option being open has somehow convinced them it was the only option.

[Bluestang]

I think the pictures explain it all. Your welcome.

[SkinsFan28]

Your picture certainly does show that the offense has 3 WR's out, and that Griffin had to read what the strong safety was going to do. There was a check down, a mid level read and a deep read. As NIB said, just because the first option is open, doesn't mean a read isn't made, only that the correct one was.

I could agree with you all, if Griffin's numbers were less historic. But the fact is there is no amazing solution in this process, and every style of offense, and qb talent has been on the field over the course of the past 60 years. As has been pointed out many times, the option through several iterations has come and gone in the NFL.
For example, Cam Newton, had 21 td passes, 17 int's and a passer rating of 84 in a similar style offense - Carolina had 2400 total yards rushing(the Skins are at 2185 currently).
Ben Roethlisberger had a 98.1 passer rating his rookie year(the best in NFL history), Griffin currently is at 104.2.
Matt Ryan had an 87.7 passer rating his rookie year.
Only Marino has a better TD/Int ratio as a rookie.

No one can predict the future, but to say that what Griffin has done this season was purely schematic, or because he wasn't asked to do it differently is a ridiculous statement in light of the numbers he has posted.

[Sonny#9]

Originally Posted by Bluestang

I think the pictures explain it all. Your welcome.

What, that the Eagles are terrible? Or Kyle Shanahan has designed a great offense? Or Robert Griffin is having a great rookie year? What was your point with that?

[Sonny#9]

Originally Posted by AmericasTeam31

Except Brady throws 38 short passes per game... Not 27.... Oh, and he throws for about 35 TD's per year too... Horrible comparison....

Really? Brady is a sure fire hall-of-famer, 3-time Super Bowl Champion, who does not throw deep very often. Griffin is a rookie who throws deep slightly more. The knock on Griffin on here is that can't win b/c he throws short too much and defenses will "get tape and figure it out." How is that not a good comparison?

Originally Posted by AmericasTeam31

Hmm... sounds strangely like an observation that was made on this board about RG. #1 rushing offense, wide open receivers and TE's everywhere, because of the dominant running game he was afforded and play action fakes.... Pretty much exactly what I said, and I also stated that I'm interested to see what happens when the safeties and LB's aren't pulled out of position by the running threat. So thanks for adding even more validity to that for me.

Fine, Griffin has more talent around him. He hasn't been asked to do as much as Luck. He also hasn't made any of the horrible decisions with the ball that Luck has. Most of Luck's int's have been terrible decisions. You're spinning around in circles trying so desperately to discredit what the Redskins and Griffin are doing.

Originally Posted by AmericasTeam31

As for "reading and understanding the defense" I honestly haven't seen much of that. Granted, full disclosure, I haven't watched every snap, but it seems to me that there are a lot of one read pass plays in the offense.

Both Kurt Warner and Trent Dilfer disagree. Both have given credit to Griffin for making his reads and going through his progressions. I'll take their analysis over yours anyday.

Originally Posted by AmericasTeam31

What's with all the Grossman comparisons? No one here compares any player to Grossman except Skins fans.... Do we run around comparing every quarterback to Kitna or Quincy? He was your QB, he sucked, move on...

He was a turnover machine that we are familiar with. It's an accurate comparison if you stop trying to desperately discredit Griffin and actually read what SHF posted.

[NIBGoldenchild]

Just wanted to add Griffin is tied with Marino for the TD/INT ratio at +14.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Its easier just to keep posting this. We have been having the same debate ever since RG3 torched the Cowboys secondary on Thanksgiving.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story...-aaron-rodgers

Delayed gratification hasn't been a part of the Robert Griffin III NFL experience. It was like a Bond flick -- things got crazy before we, the audience, even settled in when RG3 laid waste to the New Orleans Saints in Week 1. Thing is, as we finish Week 13, it still hasn't gotten deliberate. The story arc has remained explosive. So in a season where rookie QBs are a huge draw, even Andrew Luck's remarkable plotline hasn't managed to outshine RG3.

[View Full Quote]But this could contain fuel for critics who believe RG3 won't age well as an NFL quarterback. Certainly not like Luck. Call it a grumpy assessment, a page from Eeyore's Quarterback Projections, but look close and there are moments, throws and hits that make even his biggest fans wonder. They make people think of other athletically gifted QBs. They make people think, "Enjoy this for what it is" because action flicks like this lack substance. And if the critic wanted to confirm those questions, he'd find some numbers to back him up.

• He'd point to Week 1, when RG3 shredded the Saints. The numbers showed dominance -- 19-26, 320 yards, a 138.9 passer rating -- but a critic would note short pass after short pass, many simply across the line of scrimmage, glorified handoffs. A critic could note that 13 weeks later, 74.6 percent of Griffin's completions this season have been less than 10 yards.

• He'd point to Week 6, when Griffin failed to get out of bounds on a scramble, and picked up a new key stat that isn't in the passer rating formula -- his first NFL concussion. What's athleticism if it gets you more involved with linebackers down the field? Is that sustainable?

• He'd then point to Week 7, when RG3 came back from that concussion and ran a season-high 13 times, including an incredible 76-yard TD run. The critic would say, "Great run, kid, but didn't last week teach you anything?" And that critic would then point out lessons not learned, because headed into this week, RG3 led all QBs with 100 run attempts, a total even the 250-plus-pound Cam Newton can't touch.

Add it up, and the critic builds his case: Great passing totals, but a penchant for thriving on the short stuff; great rushing totals, but already with a concussion in hand; a great knack for making plays, but a clear stubbornness to fall back on his legs in a league that will punish QBs who do.

The critic will thus conclude: Sure, RG3 has been incredible, but should I buy into the future?

In a word: Yes.

That's because such a case against RG3 simply doesn't hold up to a more advanced look at the tape, the numbers and the context of the situation Griffin finds himself in. It's why any critic who would claim RG3 is, say, merely a more evolved Michael Vick, is missing a guy who may become something more like Aaron Rodgers -- and isn't far off that level now.

Start with those short throws.

RG3 has thrown a high share of short passes, with 153 of his 205 completions (74.6 percent) thrown fewer than 10 yards. But he's just a tree in an NFL forest of QBs throwing short passes. Consider that Tom Brady, with a passer rating of 105.2, is throwing short at a far higher rate. Brady has thrown fewer than 10 yards on a whopping 222 of his 308 completions entering Week 13, or 81 percent, far ahead of Griffin. Matt Ryan, with perhaps the NFL's best downfield options in Julio Jones and Roddy White (as well as Tony Gonzalez), throws short 73 percent of the time, essentially the same as Griffin. Peyton Manning (74.1), Rodgers (73.4) and even Joe Flacco (70 percent) are all thriving on the short ball at a rate virtually the same as RG3.

If you claim the Redskins have RG3 pedaling in an offense built around the short throw -- quick slants, quick digs, across-the-formation shots -- then you might as well say Brady is being pushed while utilizing training wheels.

Then consider the "running QB" critique.

So far in 2013, of RG3's league-leading 100 carries, a full 63 of them were designed runs. That means through 11 games, and 367 drop backs, Griffin has actually chosen to scramble only 37 times. According to Pro Football Focus, Griffin is pressured at a somewhat scary rate of 35.1 percent of drop backs thanks to Washington's offensive line. Think of it this way: RG3 has seen pressure at an almost identical rate as Luck, and has scrambled on average about one more time per game. (Again: with 4.41 speed.) Given his ridiculous talents as a runner, the stronger case to be made is that RG3 is actually showing restraint as a runner, not too much confidence in his legs. His Run EPA is lower than even Jay Cutler's.

All of those points make the case that RG3's success does stand up to basic critiques. But there is an even greater aspect working in his favor from a long-range standpoint.

Griffin is, without overstating it, an extraordinarily accurate NFL QB. Not for his age, but for a thrower of the football, period. Evaluators will tell you that accuracy is probably the single greatest indicator of a QB's ability to succeed because it encapsulates everything. It's not just ball placement, it's timing; it's the ability to hit the right route by working through reads, throwing to the open man and, when you do, hitting him in a location that allows him to gain yards after the catch. And to even be consistently accurate, you have to do so many other things well, all starting between the ears. In baseball terms, it's the difference between control and command. Good control means you can throw strikes consistently; good command means you're painting corners and with proper depth on the pitches. RG3 has command.

According to PFF, RG3's accuracy percentage (which accounts for drops, throwaways, spikes, batted passes and passes where the QB is hit while throwing) is at an NFL-leading 80.5 percent. The lead itself is impressive, but to put that number in context, since PFF began tracking the stat in 2008, only Rodgers has a higher rate -- 80.6 percent. In other words, RG3 through 11 games is as accurate a passer as we've seen in the NFL over a five-year period when virtually every passing record has been torched. Among rookies in that time, Ryan has the best full-season mark, at 74.6 percent. How deterministic is that number? This season, the guys directly trailing RG3 are Rodgers, Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Matt Schaub and Brady. Pretty good company.

[+] Enlarge
William Perlman/US Presswire
RG3 runs, but much of it has been by design.
And RG3 isn't just accurate because he's throwing short. On throws of more than 20 yards, his accuracy percentage is 52.2 percent, third highest in the NFL. According to ESPN Stats & Info, he's completed 66.7 percent of those 20-plus-yard throws, second highest in the NFL. And RG3 actually throws downfield plenty next to his peers. On intermediate throws (10-20 yards) he's completed 42 passes, more than Brady or Rodgers. This goes back to last season at Baylor, where coaches Art Briles and Phil Montgomery tinkered with his delivery on the deep ball. His 72.4 percent completion percentage last season wasn't just pure college offensive gimmickry -- his 10.7 yards per attempt led the nation.

The accuracy stands up under another level of scrutiny -- pressure. Against five or more rushers, RG3 has completed 67.4 percent of passes, a higher rate than the impossible-to-blitz Peyton Manning. His accuracy percentage under pressure is an obscene 81.9 percent, an NFL high.

Satisfied? If you aren't, remember that this is all being done within an offense not exactly teeming with weapons. We all saw the Redskins add pass-catching help in free agency, an attempt to ease the transition for their rookie, but, as Bill Barnwell notes, "Despite Washington's best efforts to spend money this offseason and procure RG3 some weapons to throw to, their receiving corps has fallen apart this year." And "If Griffin were really struggling this year, we'd be looking at his receiving corps and saying that he didn't have anything to work with."

Critics can question the sustainability of RG3. They can nod to themselves every time he takes a hit when he should have been sliding. They can rightly say he'll need to learn to get out of harm's way. But restraint is there, and short throws are in every QB plot in this league. Ultimately, pointing to RG3's legs or short throws as a potential problem is like pointing to Greg Maddux's velocity as a problem. In both cases, what each guy does best is really the most important aspect to the position: Each is really, really accurate.

Take away everything else RG3 offers athletically, and he is still an extremely accurate QB. That's a nice fallback plan.

[AmericasTeam31]

Originally Posted by Sonny#9

Really? Brady is a sure fire hall-of-famer, 3-time Super Bowl Champion, who does not throw deep very often. Griffin is a rookie who throws deep slightly more. The knock on Griffin on here is that can't win b/c he throws short too much and defenses will "get tape and figure it out." How is that not a good comparison?

Really? I never said anything about the amount of short passes that RG threw. Personally I think it's an irrelevant thought. It doesn't matter where you throw the ball, short or long. But what I don't agree with is comparing a rookie, read option, "running QB" to one of the best pocket passing QB's of all time who has proven what he can do year in and year out. Not just in his rookie season. I'm not at all trying to say that RG isn't capable of getting there, but hold off on comparing your rookie to Brady right now...

Originally Posted by Sonny#9

Fine, Griffin has more talent around him. He hasn't been asked to do as much as Luck. He also hasn't made any of the horrible decisions with the ball that Luck has. Most of Luck's int's have been terrible decisions. You're spinning around in circles trying so desperately to discredit what the Redskins and Griffin are doing.

First, I have not tried to discredit anything. I'm simply stating my opinion on the subject. In fact, I've given both RG and Kyle credit for the system and play calling.

Second, how am I spinning in circles when one of you Skins fans pretty much said the same thing I said about Luck's college career? I posted that RG has the strength of a strong running game and wide open WR's going for him. You ignored that idea, and then used the exact same thought as a knock, or strike against Luck.

Finally, Griffin has not made the horrible passing decisions that Luck has, you're spot on there. But let's just ignore the idea that he DOES lead the league in fumbles, but we'll sweep that one under the rug.

Originally Posted by Sonny#9

Both Kurt Warner and Trent Dilfer disagree. Both have given credit to Griffin for making his reads and going through his progressions. I'll take their analysis over yours anyday.

You should! I gave full disclosure that I haven't watched every snap, added to the fact that I am a COWBOYS fan, so I have no desire to watch every snap. Go read back and look for my description of the conversation I had with my brother in law about Griffin. I gave him plenty of credit for what he's doing, stating that our (Dallas') only thread of hope that Griffin doesn't pan out is if he can't function without a solid running game. Otherwise, we'll have issues for many years.

Originally Posted by Sonny#9

He was a turnover machine that we are familiar with. It's an accurate comparison if you stop trying to desperately discredit Griffin and actually read what SHF posted.

IN which season did Grossman lead any 2-14 to the playoffs the following season?