Bill Polian praises Morris Claiborne

[hra8700]

Originally Posted by D29Murray

Well, I'm a Cowboys fan... but I disagree. Casey Hayward is winning this rookie CB thing.

This is the same casey hayward that lost his starting job to davon house and then to sam shields?

He excels at what he does (instincts, can diagnose plays, ball skills), but he's still primarily a zone corner.that doesnt offer much in terms of run support. Its not that he isnt an outstanding player its just that his skillset is far less valuable than a true man coverage corner.

[Deep_Freeze]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

I think playing cornerback in the NFL is the single toughest position to play in all of sports.

QB has more going on mentally but I don't think any position requires more of you physically than NFL CB.

Good to see positive thoughts from you on the position, especially one you give so much grief to.

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

The Brockers thing is funny. People draw conclusions of players based on height, weight and where they played college ball.

I wasn't thrilled with moving up in the draft because it meant they skipped over one of Brockers or Cox, but Claiborne has been very good and should be a key player for this team over the next decade.

Brockers and Cox have both had decent rookie seasons, but neither would have played a premium position here. Any time you can move up into the top 10 and get a blue chip player at a premium position without giving up the farm, you do it.

Crawford came in raw, but after this season of development he should come through in spades. Much rather develop players like him, and in the past Bowen, Canty, Hatch and such, then pick a 3-4 DE that high. Sure they are good to have, but unless he is JJ Watt great, he won't have the impact of a Mo.

[newnationcb]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

I think playing cornerback in the NFL is the single toughest position to play in all of sports.

QB has more going on mentally but I don't think any position requires more of you physically than NFL CB.

Yet they don't matter. The contradiction has me concerned.

[perrykemp]

Originally Posted by hra8700

This is the same casey hayward that lost his starting job to davon house and then to sam shields?

He excels at what he does (instincts, can diagnose plays, ball skills), but he's still primarily a zone corner.that doesnt offer much in terms of run support. Its not that he isnt an outstanding player its just that his skillset is far less valuable than a true man coverage corner.

Couple of things -- To say Casey Heyward "lost his starting job" isn't accurate. They Packers did, however, move him from the outside to the inside (slot corner, nickle safety -- whatever you want to call that position Charles Woodson has traditionally played) when Woodson was injured.

I do agree with your premise, however, that Heyward isn't and will never a pure cover corner like Claiborne. He isn't that kind of athlete. What the Packers thought he could be and he is showing all the signs of being is the perfect player for that Charles Woodson nickel corner/safety/lb position that Woodson has been playing so successfully the past 6-7 years.

So to summarize, while Heyward is a strong candidate for rookie of the year, he essentially plays a different position than Claiborne... Claiborne is a cover corner and Heyward that Charles Woodson hybrid role.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by perrykemp

Couple of things -- To say Casey Heyward "lost his starting job" isn't accurate. They Packers did, however, move him from the outside to the inside (slot corner, nickle safety -- whatever you want to call that position Charles Woodson has traditionally played) when Woodson was injured.

I do agree with your premise, however, that Heyward isn't and will never a pure cover corner like Claiborne. He isn't that kind of athlete. What the Packers thought he could be and he is showing all the signs of being is the perfect player for that Charles Woodson nickel corner/safety/lb position that Woodson has been playing so successfully the past 6-7 years.

So to summarize, while Heyward is a strong candidate for rookie of the year, he essentially plays a different position than Claiborne... Claiborne is a cover corner and Heyward that Charles Woodson hybrid role.

The truth is somewhere between you guys posts.

Hayward has had a heck of a rookie season but he isn't starting in base sets. Woodson ALWAYS played every down.

Saying Hayward is a Charles Woodson clone would be both untrue and unfair to him. Woodson is a top 5 CB the past decade who now plays safety. Hayward may turn into a Woodson of 2010 on but he isn't what Woodson has been at his best.

I like guys with ball skills on my defense and Hayward plays the ball very well. He isn't a great man cover guy but if you sit him in a zone he will read plays and break on the ball.

I'd love to have him here. But I wouldn't trade Mo for him. Mo can take away a WR, not just an area. And when a guy can play true man coverage it makes everything easier for 10 other players.

The interesting thing is you can our player personnel dept getting it right in 2012. All the guys they were interested in for the earliest picks have played well.

[MichaelWinicki]

Originally Posted by jterrell

The interesting thing is you can our player personnel dept getting it right in 2012. All the guys they were interested in for the earliest picks have played well.

That's the one right there.

The last 3 drafts have been considerably better.

When it come to evaluating the draft, the Cowboys have turned the corner... So to speak.

[perrykemp]

Originally Posted by jterrell

The truth is somewhere between you guys posts.

Hayward has had a heck of a rookie season but he isn't starting in base sets. Woodson ALWAYS played every down.

Saying Hayward is a Charles Woodson clone would be both untrue and unfair to him. Woodson is a top 5 CB the past decade who now plays safety. Hayward may turn into a Woodson of 2010 on but he isn't what Woodson has been at his best.

I like guys with ball skills on my defense and Hayward plays the ball very well. He isn't a great man cover guy but if you sit him in a zone he will read plays and break on the ball.

I'd love to have him here. But I wouldn't trade Mo for him. Mo can take away a WR, not just an area. And when a guy can play true man coverage it makes everything easier for 10 other players.

The interesting thing is you can our player personnel dept getting it right in 2012. All the guys they were interested in for the earliest picks have played well.

Essentially what you are saying, and I agree with it, is that Heyward is an area guy -- more similar to Ronde Barber than Charles Woodson.

I agree.

Mo has true shut down corner ability/potential, Heyward has the makings of a phenomenal zone corner.

Same position (CB), but built for two very different styles of play.

[Doomsday101]

I think often times young CB are more concerned about not giving up big plays they are reluctant to take many chances. I think as the game starts to slow down for Claiborne and he is playing more relaxed his talents will show much more than they are right now.

[MichaelWinicki]

Originally Posted by newnationcb

Yet they don't matter. The contradiction has me concerned.

RS has always been high on Mo's talent and his over-all ceiling at the position.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by newnationcb

Yet they don't matter. The contradiction has me concerned.

It's the hardest position to play in sports. Nobody can shut down top WRs consistently enough to step teams from putting up points and winning games. So to try to bang your head against a wall there instead of just building your front seven and letting that impact help your secondary is foolish. That's how you beat offenses in this league.

There's no contradiction at all. You just think there is.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

RS has always been high on Mo's talent and his over-all ceiling at the position.

I have. I said when he was drafted he was probably one of the top 5 CB prospects to come out in the last 10 years. He's going to be a good one. No question in my mind about that.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

That's the one right there.

The last 3 drafts have been considerably better.

When it come to evaluating the draft, the Cowboys have turned the corner... So to speak.

Okay. Then now we have to actually start getting the better value with our picks rather than going 'see, we knew those guys could play', as we watch them excel in another uniform.

Brockers would look good in Dallas. Ware Lee Wagner Carter would be nasty. It wasn't nearly the laughable, slam dunk, you gotta go up to get Mo if that's what we were gonna do, that people declared after the draft.

[cowboysooner]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

Okay. Then now we have to actually start getting the better value with our picks rather than going 'see, we knew those guys could play', as we watch them excel in another uniform.

Brockers would look good in Dallas. Ware Lee Wagner Carter would be nasty. It wasn't nearly the laughable, slam dunk, you gotta go up to get Mo if that's what we were gonna do, that people declared after the draft.

A Brockers Wagner draft would have signaled a switch to the 4-3. IMO

[Idgit]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

Okay. Then now we have to actually start getting the better value with our picks rather than going 'see, we knew those guys could play', as we watch them excel in another uniform.

Brockers would look good in Dallas. Ware Lee Wagner Carter would be nasty. It wasn't nearly the laughable, slam dunk, you gotta go up to get Mo if that's what we were gonna do, that people declared after the draft.

It wasn't a slam-dunk, but it wasn't a mistake, either. Wagner wasn't a position of need for us, so, while it'd be great to have him, it wasn't an obvious personnel move to make. The goal is to get your draft position to match you need in situations where there's a high-value player on the board. We definitely did that at CB at 6 this year. We just also happened to have needs for pass rushers and OLs, too.

As long as we're filling spots with players who can play, we're doing what we need to do on the personnel front. The rest of it comes down to coaching and execution. Elite organizations have to do a great job at both.

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

So exactly what technique flaws have you noticed?

i know Jerome Henderson says you are wrong. He says that when Claiborne came in the best part was that he did not have to go over all of the technique issues that most young corners have.

Should we put this with 'the linemen playing next to an OL does not effect that OL's game?'

Claiborne already plays with better technique than Terrence Newman ever did.